micknich2003
Western Thunderer
Brian, it's Hull Springhead c1955, exact details are on the negative, but I don't have it to hand.
7mm Geordie bruiser (NER A7)
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
69784, Hull Springhead, 18 May 1952. Source unknown. Plenty more if of interest. Mick
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Keep going, good quality large images are hard to come by and I've spotted some little details that can be added to the next round of etches. The first set I always use to test the basic build and fit quality, he second cleans that up and adds any details missed.
One thing is the cab roof, it's almost double thickness but that'll eat etch space like crazy and be a chore to roll both parts uniformly and then solder together squarely; especially as there's a recess around the edge on the upper surface. The other way will be a slightly thicker etch with a half etch rebate around the edge.
The photos also show the four little stove pipe tank vents in each corner of the roof, some are trimmed flush with the roof surface some still stick up proud as originally built.
784 has the third type of sandbox where the cross connecting balancing pipe has been removed from the tank front, a blanking plate covers the original opening.
MD
One thing is the cab roof, it's almost double thickness but that'll eat etch space like crazy and be a chore to roll both parts uniformly and then solder together squarely; especially as there's a recess around the edge on the upper surface. The other way will be a slightly thicker etch with a half etch rebate around the edge.
The photos also show the four little stove pipe tank vents in each corner of the roof, some are trimmed flush with the roof surface some still stick up proud as originally built.
784 has the third type of sandbox where the cross connecting balancing pipe has been removed from the tank front, a blanking plate covers the original opening.
MD
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
Springhead Hull, c1955.
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
All for now, time to plug in my own soldering iron. In store at Hull Dairycoates. Photo' 
Neville Stead.
Neville Stead.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I do like those pics, Mick. It's really good that you have details. Just a date and location helps the full story behind the picture to be built up, and can sometimes challenge the received wisdom too. 69772 in store looks as though it's just out of works. It was withdrawn in 1957 and left Hull Dairycoates for Hull Springhead at the end of 1955, so probably saw some more work after this photo was taken.
Brian
Brian
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
Brian, 69772 was in Darlington Works 16 to 25 March 1954 for non Classified repairs. Condemned 16 December 1957.
micknich2003
Western Thunderer
69775, Dairycoates, 28 July 1951. Lensman unknown.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Is that two chassis options Mick, or are they due to be put together in layers?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Two layers Rob, that way I can get rivets on the inside and outside with no ugly holes on the reverse side, in reality the outer layer has all the rivets etched on which saves a lot of time punching them all out, it also acts as a blanking sheet over the tabs for the stays.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Mick
Will the etch be available to purchase in due course?
Doing a bit of digging re the front sandboxes it seems that the small one was replaced by the LNER with the L shaped one to fit under the tank balancing pipe. Only 7 engines had the large sandbox according to Yeadon, 770,774,775,779,780,784,785, which was apparently due to the fitting of Down's sanding apparatus. No I don't know either. 775 in 11/45 was the first one, the rest were in the BR period. Presumably in these engines the tanks balanced via the well tank, or perhaps an inboard balance pipe between the inside tank faces.
Regards
Martin
Edit: Wilson Downs of Shildon applied for a patent in 1944 relating to the application of sand by steam or compressed air. The patent drawings look suspiciously like the sanders on a modern steam or first generation diesel loco.
Will the etch be available to purchase in due course?
Doing a bit of digging re the front sandboxes it seems that the small one was replaced by the LNER with the L shaped one to fit under the tank balancing pipe. Only 7 engines had the large sandbox according to Yeadon, 770,774,775,779,780,784,785, which was apparently due to the fitting of Down's sanding apparatus. No I don't know either. 775 in 11/45 was the first one, the rest were in the BR period. Presumably in these engines the tanks balanced via the well tank, or perhaps an inboard balance pipe between the inside tank faces.
Regards
Martin
Edit: Wilson Downs of Shildon applied for a patent in 1944 relating to the application of sand by steam or compressed air. The patent drawings look suspiciously like the sanders on a modern steam or first generation diesel loco.
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Martin, there's two types of enlarged sandbox, the inverted L and the simple enlarged one where the transverse balance pipe was removed.
Not sure how the water was balanced once that was removed, I presume they just relied on the longitudinal ones under the cab steps and used the rear water space under the coal as a link between left and right sides.
Not sure they had well tanks unless you mean the space under the coal bunker at the rear? I always thought well tanks were beneath the footplate and between the frames, ala Beatie well tanks. I could be wrong though
Not sure how the water was balanced once that was removed, I presume they just relied on the longitudinal ones under the cab steps and used the rear water space under the coal as a link between left and right sides.
Not sure they had well tanks unless you mean the space under the coal bunker at the rear? I always thought well tanks were beneath the footplate and between the frames, ala Beatie well tanks. I could be wrong though
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Mick,
Yep - well tank = below footplate, usually between the frames. In the UK we're not hugely conversant with the term 'back tank'*, but locos of this type are not unknown on the continent, see Deutsche Reichsbahn BR62:
The Czechs also had some, 476 class IIRC...
Steph
* Perhaps a slightly inexact translation from the German.
Yep - well tank = below footplate, usually between the frames. In the UK we're not hugely conversant with the term 'back tank'*, but locos of this type are not unknown on the continent, see Deutsche Reichsbahn BR62:
The Czechs also had some, 476 class IIRC...
Steph
* Perhaps a slightly inexact translation from the German.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Mick
Whilst I would normally agree with you and Steph about what a well tank actually is, Hooles' book on NER locos has an NER weight diagram for the class Y which says "CAPACITY OF WELL TANK ??? GALLONS", the question marks are because there's no actual capacity written down. More surprisingly other weight diagrams for tender engines also have this appellation, in those cases I'm pretty certain there is nothing that resembles a well tank. I wonder if this is a Darlingtonism for the reserve capacity when the main tanks are empty? Steph's description of it as a back tank is a good one, the Std4s certainly had it.
Regards
Martin
Whilst I would normally agree with you and Steph about what a well tank actually is, Hooles' book on NER locos has an NER weight diagram for the class Y which says "CAPACITY OF WELL TANK ??? GALLONS", the question marks are because there's no actual capacity written down. More surprisingly other weight diagrams for tender engines also have this appellation, in those cases I'm pretty certain there is nothing that resembles a well tank. I wonder if this is a Darlingtonism for the reserve capacity when the main tanks are empty? Steph's description of it as a back tank is a good one, the Std4s certainly had it.
Regards
Martin
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Martin, there is a well tank on the LNER 8 wheel tenders and quite large too. However it's not a separate tank but a large depression in the floor and because it is below the corporate it's level cannot be monitored. Normally you'd call this a sump but it's too big for that I think.
I think all tank engines have a water space below the coal or shovel plate height, otherwise it'd just be wasted space.
MD
I think all tank engines have a water space below the coal or shovel plate height, otherwise it'd just be wasted space.
MD
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Mick
LMS tenders had them as well, and I expect the GWR and SR, it's just that it's not what I would call a well tank, sump is a good a word as any.
I'd venture to suggest anything with a saddle or pannier tanks is unlikely to have water space under the coal, which is quite a lot of locomotives.
Regards
Martin
LMS tenders had them as well, and I expect the GWR and SR, it's just that it's not what I would call a well tank, sump is a good a word as any.
I'd venture to suggest anything with a saddle or pannier tanks is unlikely to have water space under the coal, which is quite a lot of locomotives.
Regards
Martin
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
That's an interesting clarification, Martin.
Down here, south of the river (Thames not Tyne!) there's little distinction between the various tanks on a tank loco and only the all-up capacity is quoted.
Many of the Southern and predecessors tenders had well tanks, described as such. As an example the difference in capacity of the LSWR Drummond 'Watercart' tenders varied between 4000 and 4500g, the well tank accounting for roughly 200g of the variance, when in use.
Steph
Down here, south of the river (Thames not Tyne!) there's little distinction between the various tanks on a tank loco and only the all-up capacity is quoted.
Many of the Southern and predecessors tenders had well tanks, described as such. As an example the difference in capacity of the LSWR Drummond 'Watercart' tenders varied between 4000 and 4500g, the well tank accounting for roughly 200g of the variance, when in use.
Steph
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Martin, fair point, so is the shovel plate at floor level then, if it's not then there'll be a wasted cavity underneath and I cannot image that firemen would be forced to stoop so low to get the coal, i'm not a GWR aficionado a dn the GA for what few GW stuff I have is buried under a mound of other stuff.
How does one define the difference between sump and well then (just idle musing), to me sumps are small areas where typically the filter would sit, like those on the outsides of BR tenders.
MD
How does one define the difference between sump and well then (just idle musing), to me sumps are small areas where typically the filter would sit, like those on the outsides of BR tenders.
MD