News from JLTRT

More photos of the NMRS Sea Lions and a problem solved ! I spent days trying to work out the extra etches in the photos I thought they were dividers in side the body and yes they are but not these as there from another kit in a different scale ! Cor it get's worse and I've still got two to build.

Pete,

Some shots of the end detail (DS62041 on the KWVR) .... may help....









Regards,

Andy

Here's the next clue

Andy your a real toff Spot on. Thanks

Snap Pete!

Hehe, I think we all guessed correctly on the first clue, didn't we?

Steph

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Great news for all concerned, thanks to JLTRT for taking this on.

Craig.

Here is the CAD of the class 47I'm trying to change the thread title but I'm not having much joy, News from JLTRT would be more appropriate.

Compton castle said:

News from JLTRT would be more appropriate.

Click to expand...

Done
For reference, you don't need to open the thread to do it, you should just be able to click on 'Edit' to the right of the thread title on the 'Talk' page and it will allow you to change the title there.
Steve

Thanks Steve
Steve

47 looks nice.

Hopefully this is a helpful time to make comments on the 47 before the CAD turns into three dimensions. I think some refinement is needed to the cab roof edge and around the cab windows to capture the appearance of the 47s. The following images are extracts from one of @oldravendale 's lovely high resolution photos posted on WT some time ago.


My comments are -
- The window surrounds are too wide and thick.
- The bottom edge of the cab roof should be curved (a series of curves) in plan at the sides and front. The steelwork just below the roof also curves to match then has an overhang above the flat steel plate the windscreens are fixed to. The curved section above the windows should meet flush with the central pillar. There is a similar, but less pronounced, detail above the side windows. Most of the issue here could be the oversize window surrounds. I just noticed that there is a similar small curved ledge below the side windows to allow the straight windows to meet the curved cab sides.
- The curve along the front edge of the prototype roof moulding does not have the droopy, or horizontal, section towards each corner when viewed from the front.
- Not sure about this, but the shape of the side of the cab roof air intake looks like it might be more curved on the CAD than it should be giving it a slightly more arched appearance.

I hope this is helpful. I have often wondered why there seems to be so many separate pieces welded together to form the cab fronts of these locos rather than using more pressings, especially given the number built. Surely the additional tooling would have cost less than the labour to assemble the complex pieces. Especially when Falcon had a simpler arrangement above the cab windows and the Hymek (between the two Brush's in the original image but cropped out) also had simple flat plate work beneath the similar shaped cab roof without any detriment to the overall appearance.

Overseer said:

I have often wondered why there seems to be so many separate pieces welded together to form the cab fronts of these locos rather than using more pressings, especially given the number built. Surely the additional tooling would have cost less than the labour to assemble the complex pieces.

Click to expand...

Remember than when these locos were built there were a lot of very skilled craftsmen around who could knock out complex panels very quickly from just a sheet of alloy and an english wheel. And very strong unions who frowned on any kind of labour saving efficiency.

Overseer said:

- The curve along the front edge of the prototype roof moulding does not have the droopy, or horizontal, section towards each corner when viewed from the front.

Click to expand...

Well in fairness, it does on some locos




But on some it does not

Or is less well defined. A very quick check through my images shows that 790 has the most aggressive droop, the rest vary between a constant arch and a medium droop.

Overseer said:

- Not sure about this, but the shape of the side of the cab roof air intake looks like it might be more curved on the CAD than it should be giving it a slightly more arched appearance.

Click to expand...

Your right, see above, the cab roof grill (horn cover, not ventilation) needs to be a little flatter from the frontal aspect which might make the side look better.

There is a faint hint of the eyebrows above the flat section of the windscreen, but as you note the windscreen surrounds tend to mask them, the windscreen surrounds are the correct size, just too thick, the real ones are only a few mm thick and only stand proud of the windscreen flat plate by a very small amount.

Other than those very minor points, it looks pretty good I think and in the flesh you'd soon not notice them when painted and weathered, which always seems to change the way a loco looks, to me anyway.

I believe Pete owns a couple of these so they should be able to crawl all over them and get them pretty spot on

I have to say, I'm with Overseer on this; the lack of the curved section over the cab front and side windows is an omission as far as I'm concerned.
The bogies look good as far as I can tell.

I'm not in for this yet. It's nearly there, but suffering the weaknesses of some other kits of this loco. I'll stick with the DJH at the moment as I think they got the cab spot on.

I hope, and indeed expect, that I'll be able to withdraw my observation by the time the model reaches the market.

Steph

Steph, but the curve is there, or am I looking at different images to everyone else .

A point to remember is this is a CAD render and has probably been done with limited shadow or occlusion rendering, both of which drive up the render time and image size. Whenever I did renders you just did a quick once or twice shadow pass for web work and maybe a full blown studio shadow pass for promotion shot, way back then that would take hours and I mean leave the PC overnight kind of hours for one rendered image.

Limited shadow runs cut back the shadow effect, it's depth and definition so there may well be a perfect curve across the windscreens, just that the render is not showing it fully. If you look at the top of the side window at that darker line, that'll be the shadow from the curved body sections, look at each end and you'll see it's a bit lumpy, a reasonable sign that a quick shadow render has been done.

Also bear in mind the over thick windscreen surround, whatever lip there is under the curved section will be covered up by the slightly over thick surround.

I can see they are there, but concede they are not that visible for what I think are two reasons, the thick windscreen surround and a quick shadow render. Check out the other window surrounds, they are all just a little too thick, even the body side ones which in reality are pretty slim. Being a CAD image means these can be adjusted at will and will only take a few seconds to trim back.

I'm not defending the model, just know first hand how easy it is for a render to throw things out, or taken the other way, to hide or mislead, this is a computer image and as such can be manipulated at will to give any effect you want

Likewise, I agree on the DJH, probably the best shaped 47 cab in the business in any scale.

To my eye it is very, very close but I have two observations. Firstly I agree that the windscreen surrounds need to be toned down; less wide and more importantly less deep. Secondly I think that the front base line of the roof isn't full enough. Two reasons for this - the rain strip observations made above and secondly the lack of the 'eye brows' that are formed above where the flat of the glass supports meets the bottom of the roof curve. Despite this photo being from a different aspect, I hope it illustrates what I mean. Was the cab roof hand rolled in metal at Brush or was it a GRP moulding? Hand rolling would give all the variation needed to give a different 3D path to the rain strip.



Despite the observations, I think it is a very convincing model and look forward to seeing it at Telford

Simon

Simon,

I believe the roof was GRP, seem to recall seeing one smashed up somewhere, might even have a photo off the web at home. I suspect the gutter is riveted to the cab front plate work so will vary a little and I think the droopy gutters are more prevelent on the rebuilds, 7, 8 and 9 series. I've got a nagging feeling there was a drain hole at the start of the corner on the front face and the droop was there to 'invite' the water to pass more easily through it.

Ok guys where on it. These photos help. These are only renders and will change a lot. But be assured that it will be spot on. It will be more like Reading than Telford when its ready but we are still hoping to show some parts at Telford. I will keep you up to date as we go along.