Walsworth Models Sentinel Y1 8400

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I second Overseer's comments, and am also very pleased to see more photos showing how far locos travelled into dock and quayside systems. In my opinion we see unjustifiably large locos on quaysides far too often on layouts at exhibitions, or in magazines.
 

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
Gentlemen, your combined knowledgeable contribution to this thread has been excellent. I now know far more about this 'simple' little model than I did when I started. My grateful thanks.
Sandy
 

adrian

Flying Squad
The 1938 colour photo found by Steph is amazing. The prominence of the red lining is striking as it doesn't show up well in black and white photos. The orange colour of the buffer beams is also noteworthy, model paint for buffer beam red seems to have been getting redder over the last few decades.
Agreed - although I'm not sure about how much to read into the colour. It seems to have been taken on a very sunny day and the slide/scan processing may have washed out the colour a bit. What is noticeable is that although the buffer beam is red the buffer stocks appear to be black, also puzzled with what appears to be a hook hung off the top lamp iron on the "rear" of the loco.
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
I am glad Sandy wasn't too clear about the prototype as it has brought up some really good photos and given us a chance to look a bit more closely at the earlier Sentinel locos. The 1938 colour photo found by Steph is amazing. The prominence of the red lining is striking as it doesn't show up well in black and white photos. The orange colour of the buffer beams is also noteworthy, model paint for buffer beam red seems to have been getting redder over the last few decades. But it is the LMS five plank wagon that has made me wonder - it looks like it is in 1936 Bauxite livery from a few small flecks visible but where has it been to become so black in only two years or so?

The LMS five plank is interesting - I suspect that it appears slightly duller/blacker than it might as an accident of photographic reproduction, though it is still pretty grubby - witness the relative visibility of 'LMS' and the wagon number. This wagon, to diagram 1892, no. 409612 must have been built some time in 1937 (I don't have any LMS reference books to hand, but Paul Bartlett's images show the - by 1968 - M407345 built in '37 and retro-fitted with vacuum brake LMS & MR open merchandise - 5 & 1 plank OWV ZGO ZGV | M407345). Steel underframe, 10' wheelbase, as modern as the LMS got for opens at that time. It's relative newness is apparent from the sheen of black gloss on the top half of the axlebox; it's about a year old.

Adam
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Yes - be very careful about photo colour reproduction. I've recently scanned a large format colour slide collection for a friend, all taken in the 1960s. A "straight" reproduction, ie without any picture processing in the scanner, shows the vast majority of the photos to have taken on a blue cast, although certain films have escaped. I can't confirm the film stock, and it can't be Kodachrome as that was only available in 35mm in 1965 or thereabouts, although historically that has given the best colour permanence. I don't want to remove the photos from their card frames either without permission, so the origin will remain a mystery.

Having said which, the slide in question is Dufaycolor which was actually a black and white reversal additive image viewed through a colour filter mosaic integrated with the film and was reckoned to be pretty accurate at reproducing colour. Photographs such as this one are very rare, largely because colour film was extraordinarily slow. Nonetheless, being a black and white process image stability is good and deterioration should be minimal.

However, in 1938 colour film was in its infancy, and some of the systems at that time had "interesting" assessments of colour fidelity. Frankly I'd use the colour in that photo as a guide only. As for the buffer beams, if you look at magazine colour photos from the 50s and 60s buffer beams can be seen to be red rather than orange, which is actually as I remember them.

Brian
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Gentlemen, your combined knowledgeable contribution to this thread has been excellent. I now know far more about this 'simple' little model than I did when I started. My grateful thanks.
Sandy
If it helps there a few photos showing the internal layout of the CE engine as posted by Overseer.
File:Im1925EnV139-p436.jpg - Graces Guide

File:Im1925EnV139-p432.jpg - Graces Guide

From the 1925 The engineer.

The Engineer 1925/04/17 - Graces Guide

It includes a few drawings as well

Screen Shot 2017-11-11 at 15.32.17.png
 

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
Agreed - although I'm not sure about how much to read into the colour. It seems to have been taken on a very sunny day and the slide/scan processing may have washed out the colour a bit. What is noticeable is that although the buffer beam is red the buffer stocks appear to be black, also puzzled with what appears to be a hook hung off the top lamp iron on the "rear" of the loco.
For 'Fly shunting'?

Sandy
 

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
talking of shunting, readers may also be interested in my thread "Shunting using Chains" elsewhere on this forum. there are other photos of Lowestoft, and of a Y10, though none of a Y1 or Y3.
8400 is looking very nice. were you aware, Sandy, that the other lot were organising a 'cakebox' challenge? 8400 seems an ideal for the job.
 

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
talking of shunting, readers may also be interested in my thread "Shunting using Chains" elsewhere on this forum. there are other photos of Lowestoft, and of a Y10, though none of a Y1 or Y3.
8400 is looking very nice. were you aware, Sandy, that the other lot were organising a 'cakebox' challenge? 8400 seems an ideal for the job.

No, What's that all about?

Sandy
 

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
It's on RMWEB, BRM are challenging modellers to produce a diorama that would fit in a cardboard cakebox 8" x 8" x 6" The deadline is I think over a year off, but at least one person has already produced quite a neat looking scene.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Sandy.

Those sand boxes look good. Mine were all over the place for some reason, and all different. In fact all the castings were in need of some loving care, but with that applied they looked OK (to me) in the end.

Nice build of a quirky prototype.

Walsworth make (IMHO) good, buildable models at a very competitive price with a bit of TLC applied. Unlike certain other suppliers I could mention. (For some reason my spell checker made certain "cretin", which actually does apply in some areas to the other model I'm thinking of.:)))

Brian
 

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
HI Brian
The sand boxes in this kit are actually very cleverly designed one piece etches that, if folded carefully and plenty of solder, can be turned into quite nice shaped boxes. I agree with your assessment on the kits produced by John. Good value for money.
Regards
Sandy
 

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
lovely, but IMHO it does need a small patch of Lowestoft quayside to really finish it off. Unless you have other plans for it?

Indeed it does Geoff but not by me. It's a rather long story, so here goes.
I had just emerged from a traumatic relationship with an ACE A3 and needed something simple and easy to recover my sanity! I asked John last Monday, he lives quite close to me, if he would like me to build one of his new Y1's. I thoroughly enjoyed the build and also offered to re-hash his instruction sheet. It was good therapy.
During the build I took the opportunity to customise it slightly to make it a little different from the standard kit. I painted it black with the red buffer beams and returned it to John on Friday morning. His original plan was to use it as a display item on his trade stand but, by the afternoon he had sold it! Detailed, weathered and varnished, it went in the post to the new owner today!

Regards

Sandy
 

Super-Sentinel

New Member
I have only just found this discussion so my input is a little late, but I hope of interest. The Walsworth kit (which looks like an excellent product) represents the early Sentinel CE locomotive with composite frames. By way of explanation the first CE locomotive was Sentinel 5733 that was a stock order subject to a number of alterations before it was sold to Ley's Malleable Castings at Derby. Some of the diagrams/photographs in this discussion show this locomotive. The frames were a lightweight single channel section with the section facing outwards, the spring hangers being attached direct to the bottom of the channel section and this arrangement is not correct for the kit. Following examples had the main channel frame reversed to face inwards with another, shorter, channel section mounted below. This assembly was joined by two substantial gusset plates, mounted each end of the shorter channel, the spring brackets being attached immediately below the gusset plates and this is the design represented by the Walsworth kit. Whilst this composite frame design was very strong it was also very expensive and Sentinel eventually reverted to the single channel frame facing outwards, but to a much larger section than those used on 5733. The subsequent LNER Y1/Y3's had this revised single channel frame design. Of the sixteen CE locomotives known to have been fitted with the composite frame arrangement five were sold in the United Kingdom that generally match the frame/cab dimensions of the kit, as follows -
5735 for Samuel Williams & Sons Ltd., Dagenham Dock
6007 for Aitken & Morcom Ltd., Craig-y-Hesg Quarries, Pontypridd
6020 for Dunstable Portland Cement Co. Ltd., Houghton Regis
6076 for The Derwent Valley Light Railway, York and later with Thomas Summerson & Sons Ltd., Darlington
6170 for the LNER as 8400
The last survivor was 6076 that was scrapped early 1970 after a long period of disuse.

I hope to build one of these kits in due course, but not sure which one to base it on yet!

Regards
John
 

SLNCR57

Active Member
Indeed it does Geoff but not by me. It's a rather long story, so here goes.
I had just emerged from a traumatic relationship with an ACE A3 and needed something simple and easy to recover my sanity! I asked John last Monday, he lives quite close to me, if he would like me to build one of his new Y1's. I thoroughly enjoyed the build and also offered to re-hash his instruction sheet. It was good therapy.
During the build I took the opportunity to customise it slightly to make it a little different from the standard kit. I painted it black with the red buffer beams and returned it to John on Friday morning. His original plan was to use it as a display item on his trade stand but, by the afternoon he had sold it! Detailed, weathered and varnished, it went in the post to the new owner today!

Regards

Sandy
Late to the party, Sandy ! How did you find the running gear ? Thinking of building an Irish one. Thanks David
 
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