Martin Finney 7mm A3

Peter Cross

Western Thunderer
I do like your idea for the pickups. Will be noted for future use.

Cracking model. Something to aspire to Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Thanks Peter.
I've checked and they clear the body. I'll post some better pictures later so it's clearer how I looped them up over the frames.
Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
I think this gives a better idea of how the pick ups are routed over the frames. There's no shorting but to be safe a smear of epoxy will be added to the inside of the frames next to each pick up.
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Here's another video link showing the movement of the 2:1 levers. The Slaters wheels that came with he kit had the standard axle with 90 degree crank settings. Slaters supply 120 degree axles for 3 cylinder locos but as can be seen, the gear works fine the standard ones.


I've noted that I need to add a small pipe to the rear of the main ejector pipe near the cab. I'm guessing it may be a drain for condensation???

The handrail on the smoke box door needs raising, as 60058 Blair Atholl had the number plate below the rail rather than above, which was the norm. It will be easy to do as smoke box front is removable.
Cheers,
Peter
 

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P A D

Western Thunderer
Thanks Ian.

The plot has thickened on the number plate/handrail position.

Locos Illustrated shows 60058 on 23/9/56 with the handrail above the number. Boiler is #27029 fitted in 2/51 and the tender has the early BR logo.

The book of the A3s 60058 on 16/3/58 with the handrail below the number. Boiler is #27012 fitted in 4/57 and the tender has the late early BR logo. I'm guessing that with the boiler change in 4/57 the loco and tender would have been repainted and most likely the new logo added. So if I want to have the early logo, the handrail needs raising, or I can take the easy option and fit the late logo. I'll think about that.

In the meantime, a couple of further details which were missing have been added. First the grab rails on the curve of the running plate.
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And the small pipe running out of the ejector pipe in front of the cab. As far as I can tell it just hangs behind the rear handrail pillar, but I cannot find a clear image to definitely confirm that. I'm guessing it's a drain pipe for condensate, but if anybody know different please let me know.
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Cheers,
Peter
 

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adrian

Flying Squad
Of course, I now expect to see the swaged pipe, lock nut and thread ;) :cool:
and the plate clamp half way down the down pipe.

Although one small query again (sorry Peter!) On the model you have a pipe running down from the top of the firebox down to the footplate. I'm just curious is this correct? I can't see this on the photo Mick posted. As an aside on the photo Mick posted the pipework looks to have been formed by a couple of first year apprentices - the pipework on the model has obviously been made by a time served fitter.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Adrain,

In Peters defence, I can't see the pipe you mention, his drain pipe ends short and hence his question and thus my photo to show it goes all the way down to the footplate.

The pipe clamp is of course a given ;), note, my photo is of a 107 boiler, that which is built and fitted to A4's, Peters is a 94A boiler and thus the washout cover plates and mudholes are in a different location.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
In Peters defence, I can't see the pipe you mention, his drain pipe ends short and hence his question and thus my photo to show it goes all the way down to the footplate.
Thanks for that - I can see the difference in washout cover plates and mudholes covers so I realised it was a subtly different boiler arrangement - hence my query as to the pipework differences.

On Peters model the pipe running down to the footplate I'm referring to originates from the top of the firebox marked in red. I was just wondering is this should be part of the drain pipe rather than from the top of the firebox. I'm quite happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to understand the differences I can see.
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Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Adrian,

I think that's the rear cladding band. The camera is over-sharp (common these days unfortunately), which is giving it the appearance of a shape it doesn't have...

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Adrian,

Steph is correct, the line you have marked is the leading edge of the boiler band, in reality it's not a flat band but an angle that covers the gap between the firebox cladding and cab front.

MD
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Of course, I now expect to see the swaged pipe, lock nut and thread ;) :cool:

QUE? :confused:

and the plate clamp half way down the down pipe.

Although one small query again (sorry Peter!) On the model you have a pipe running down from the top of the firebox down to the footplate. I'm just curious is this correct? I can't see this on the photo Mick posted. As an aside on the photo Mick posted the pipework looks to have been formed by a couple of first year apprentices - the pipework on the model has obviously been made by a time served fitter.

Adrian,
Sorry I don't understand what you are referring to. Are you suggesting there should be a pipe that follows the red line you have drawn? Please explain.

The "drain" pipe I have added is too short as explained by Mick. I now need to amend it so that it runs down to the running plate, and add the clamp. I'm wondering if there is also a clamp lower down behind "Mr Happy". I shall fix an extension pipe to the fire box and solder it to the back handrail pillar, cut the short length already in place back so that there is a butt join, and that will allow the ejector pipe to remain removable for painting.

Mick,
Now that you have shown that the pipe runs all the way down, I can now see it on many illustrations in various reference books. It's amazing what you can see when you know where to look! In Peter Tuffrey's book on A3s there is a photo of 1470 Great Northern on the turntable at Kings Cross. This clearly shows the pipe run and it is actually venting steam below the running plate.

By swaged pipe, lock nut and thread, I assume you mean the joint on the ejector pipe where it enters the cab? It looks like main pipe ends about 9 inches short of the cab and has a smaller diameter pipe welded to it, and this then joined to the one from the cab via a threaded joint and lock nut with grooves rather than being a hex nut. Something else to add. :rant: I've got an MOK Std 4 tank calling to me!

What about the joint in the boiler cladding at the top? Looking at photos 60103 in preservation, it has a joint with closely spaced rivets (or possibly dome head screws). The Partworks, and DJH kits have these rivets as does the new RTR A3 from Lee Marsh. Looking through all my books, I cannot find any evidence of these rivets. I have found 2 photos in the Book of the A3s of different locos that show a joint line, maybe an overlapped joint, but no screws/rivets. There may be counter sunk screws but neither illustrations show them. My gut feeling is that Partworks/DJH and Lee Marsh are basing the rivets on Flying Scotsman in preservation and have go it wrong. Any ideas on that?

In the meantime I have scribed a line to represent the joint. It's not very deep and may not show when painted but the metal is reletivly thin so I dare not scribe too deeply. Thanks again for all the tips you've given so far.
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Cheers,
Peter
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Peter,

It's not two pipes welded but one pipe with a swaged end, this is very common in gas and refrigeration pipework (part of my previous employment).

The pipe dia will be determined by the smoke box elbow fitting and at the cab end has been heated and swaged......an increase or decrease in dia with no joint......then the nut is added and a swaged flange is them added.

The threaded pipe will have a domed end to the pipework that matches the swaged flare in the larger pipe, the nut screws up and joins the pipes. The idea of the swaged flare and domed end is that both pipes do not have to be parallel, the joint will still seal if there's a small misalignment. I believe the correct term for this joint......certainly the one I've always used.....is a union.

A joint is normally two threaded parts like a coupling or elbow screwed onto the pipe. The big advantage with unions is that you do not need to spin one of the pipes or fitting to break the joint, therefore unions appear on pipework that will be split or foreseably split, joints tend to be permanent.

The nut will have a special spanner called a C or hook spanner and has a lug that fits in the slots to allow tightening, again common fittings and tools in the pipework industry.

Regarding the cladding, usually it's two pieces but I have seen large singular pieces fitted with just one joint at the bottom. If two pieces then they overlap at the top, so your joint line should not be dead centre but offset to one side.

Fixings can be flush or domed, both are right, neither is wrong. I'll have a look through my photos to see if I can find more detail from BR engines later. I suspect it may also vary from which works did the classified overhaul and then in service, if access was required, whatever was to hand in the spares bin.

Generally speaking I'd go with flush or low profile on the A3 but on the A4 they tend toward bolted fixings, again milege varies.
 
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P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,
Thanks yet again.
Behind the dome the line is slightly off center. Dozy git that I am, the line in front of the dome is centered, but I'll live with it.
Cheers,
Peter
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I would of thought that once joined that it would not have been unknown for the cladding to 'slip' around a bit ;).

Unlike the A4 where the cladding is secured to a frame work, the A3 is freestanding as far as I know. I'd have to double check that though.
 
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