7mm MOK BR Standard 4MT Tank

adrian

Flying Squad
Hi Peter, with regard to the cab roof I was thinking about using miniature magnets to keep it in place which will allow for fitting windows after painting and future access.

When I built my Jinty I just used a small scrap of N/S on one side to hook under the side sheet and on the other side just a couple of short lengths of N/S wire to make a small over-centre latch. I'd been using a small box or case with something similar for a locking mechanism and thought it was a useful idea. Anyway photo's probably explain the system better than any description.

Old Buffers Amateur Workbench

The roof just flexes that little bit to pop the wire under the other side sheet.
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
Many tbanks Jan.

Not sure it's a work of art ad mentioned by Jan, but it's looking good. Just the pick ups to do now and then replace the damaged brake blocks.
Cheers,
Peter

Hello Peter,

It IS looking good.

The Collins Dictionary defines a a Work Of Art as:

...something which is very complex or which has been skilfully made or produced.

So - for me - you're bang on the money on the second of this triumvarate :)

Cheers

Jan
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
OK Jan,
You have convinced me. Lets face it, if a pile of house brick can be considered a work of art, then why not! :)

Adrian,
The attachment of the roof on the Jinty is a nice idea and looks to have worked well. However, as the cab sides on the MOK kit incorporate the eaves of the roof and extend for between 4 and 10 mm under the separate roof etch, it would not be possible to do it that way. In any case, I don't see the need to have the roof removable, if you can remove the floor and back plate as I have done. This allows adequate room to paint the cab interior and fit the glazing. I think its more important to have the roof fixed down tight all round, which I don't think will be possible unless it is soldered in place. Here's the access to the cab, removing the floor gives. The Solderpro gas jet gave a much better result with soldering the front and back roof seams than an electric iron would have. It burned in the confined space without going out, as those cheap pencil like gas jets do, having tried to do similar work with one in the past.
20180926_125100.jpg

The front and side windows will be no problem to glaze. 20180926_125321.jpg

The rear ones will be a little tricky being recessed between the cab side and locker, but are still accessible. 20180926_125734.jpg
These are the modifications to the cab floor to aid fitting. About 10 mm of half etch lip at the bottom of the photo was removed
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The casting (ejector control valve) on the bracket on the left hand side had to be moved up to clear the hand wheel on the reverser, as did the pipe from the bottom of the valve, but is barely noticeable through the side window.
20180926_141501.jpg


I did a bit more cleaning up over lunch time around the cab/bunker area. Not wishing to labour the point, I don't see how you can get this good a fixing if the roof is removable, but if Ken, Adrian or anybody else prove me wrong, then I will eat humble pie.
20180926_132958.jpg

The "eaves" on the cab side extend under the roof to about the top edge of the riveted disc.
20180926_133025.jpg

T'other side.
20180926_133046.jpg
A further refinement that I over looked to mention earlier, is drilling through the casting at the top of the regulator crank to give more of a "forked'' appearance to the end of the regulator rod. It doesn't bring much to the party but only took second to do , so why not? I wonder if I should shorten the spigot with a few strokes of the file. It's amazing how much solder these cruel close ups show. Mind you if the model was this big it would easy to clean it off.20180926_133143.jpg
Better get back to work, I've cut myself enough slack already.
Cheers,
Peter
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
So back to the build. Here's my interpretation of the boiler back plate based on the parts supplied. I though chemically blackening the cast brass back plate might negate having to paint it, but in the end I had to scratch brush it where soldering was needed, so I'll have to paint it anyway.

View attachment 92757
View attachment 92758

View attachment 92759

At this stage I put it away as I discovered that I can no longer insert it with all the apertenances in place, as well at the reversing mechanism and hand wheel. I had only tacked the reverser in place so was able to remove it. With a bit of fiddling I got the back plate and floor in again. I was able to slide the reverser in using a pair or tweesers from the top, but to get a nice tight fit, the roof will need soldering in place before painting. To do that I need to be able to drop the floor and back plate, so I'll think about that before proceeding. Here's the back plate in the cab. View attachment 92760

View attachment 92761
The water level gauge has been added under the right hand front window and can just bee seen in this image.

Cheers,
Peter
Peter
Most impressive, however a couple of thoughts. There appears to be only one injector water valve when there should be two. Same arrangement but higher and further forward. The injector steam control valve handles are normally four spoke round brass with an external peg for hitting it, when they stick shut. The vacuum ejector steam valves are mounted external to the cab on the firebox just below the tank top with the control spindles extended back through the cab. The control handles are a bakelite spigot for the small ejector and a brass handwheel for the large ejector. Sorry to cast up these things, but having got the rest so right, it seemed sensible to point these out. Whether you choose to alter them now, lets say I can understand if you don't.
Regards
Martin
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
No worries. Always good to know before it's painted if something need altering.
However, I don't understand what's missing or in the wrong place. I've added all the cast fittings provided and they are more or less as per the instructions.
20180926_141524.jpg

There are two valves fitted to the right hand side, albeit with the lower one further forward as it is on 80002 on the KWVR. These have the "bakelite" handles you mention. Above those on a bracket is the 4 spoke handle with the peg for bashing with a hammer. I'll post some photos of 80002 when my lap top is fired up.
20180926_141423.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Here's 80002's back plate right hand side. Clearly, I'm missing the valve with 2 handles and the flexible pipe, the rocking grate mechanism and the operating rod for the rocking grate and I assume the ash pan.

DSCF3208.JPG


And view of the other side.
DSCF3206.JPG


DSCF3207.JPG
As far as I can what I have done is correct, but please clarify where you believe I have erred. Sorry about the inverted images, but I can't rotate them.
Cheers,
Peter
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Hi Peter

Your first pic shows the two injector water valves, one through the splasher and one on a bracket at the rear, I think I'm correct in saying your model has only one. The handles on the injector steam valves are I believe a preservation wrong, and if indeed MOK based their kit on 80002, then they have perpetrated the error. There is a well known drawing of a generic standard class cab layout which shows these valves with a brass four spoke spigoted handwheel, unfortunately I can't find a period pic to confirm this but in my experience, albeit limited I suppose, I haven't seen this type of handle on any other std loco.
The two part valve is for the slacker pipe and the ashpan sluice, not all locos in preservation have this, ours doesn't. You rightly point out the operating rod for the rocking grate, which is indeed used in the receptacles under the firehole door to rock the grate, the ashpan hopper doors are operated from a mechanism on the LHS of the loco between the wheels.
The ejector steam valves differ from my loco and I wonder whether the arrangement was changed when the LHS tank filler vent position was moved forward, most definitely on ours the valves are outwith the cab.
To suggest you have erred would be too forward, I think you have followed the available information and the kit designers intentions, and produced a rather wonderful representation, I'm perhaps being picky because I know a bit about one of them. Hope this is of help.
Regards
Martin
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Peter

Your first pic shows the two injector water valves, one through the splasher and one on a bracket at the rear, I think I'm correct in saying your model has only one. The handles on the injector steam valves are I believe a preservation wrong, and if indeed MOK based their kit on 80002, then they have perpetrated the error. There is a well known drawing of a generic standard class cab layout which shows these valves with a brass four spoke spigoted handwheel, unfortunately I can't find a period pic to confirm this but in my experience, albeit limited I suppose, I haven't seen this type of handle on any other std loco.
The two part valve is for the slacker pipe and the ashpan sluice, not all locos in preservation have this, ours doesn't. You rightly point out the operating rod for the rocking grate, which is indeed used in the receptacles under the firehole door to rock the grate, the ashpan hopper doors are operated from a mechanism on the LHS of the loco between the wheels.
The ejector steam valves differ from my loco and I wonder whether the arrangement was changed when the LHS tank filler vent position was moved forward, most definitely on ours the valves are outwith the cab.
To suggest you have erred would be too forward, I think you have followed the available information and the kit designers intentions, and produced a rather wonderful representation, I'm perhaps being picky because I know a bit about one of them. Hope this is of help.
Regards
Martin

Hi Martin,
No worries, I take no offence from your comments, I'm just trying to understand them. If I need to alter the backplate it's easy to do as as I can take it out with the cab floor. Certainly most of the prototype pictures in the MOK instructions are of number 02, which is a shame as my own photos are of the same loco, albeit taken most likely at least 10 years after theirs.

Please look again at my backplate as it has two injector valves on the right hand side albeit with the upper one set behind the lower one as per number 02.

I think I have the back plate diagram you refer to in one of my books so I'll dig it out and have a look. If anybody else can throw some light on these back plate issues please let me know.

In the meantime I've made a start on the pick ups. For the middle and rear wheels I'm mounting them on the brackets which support the plumbing under the tanks.
20180926_175418.jpg
And a view from the side. The pick up is 0.5 mm phosphor bronze wire. They still need some tweeting to get the tension right but I ran out of time. The wipers for the front wheels will need more though as they will need to pass between the gap in the motion bracket and the lifting link bracket. I will also need to add a spacer between the frames to mount the copper clad and then route the pb wire up and over the frames and down to the wheels.
Still, I'm moving closer to the end and the Finney 7 A4 is calling me!
20180926_175357.jpg

Cheers ,
Peter
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Peter
you wrote
Please look again at my backplate as it has two injector valves on the right hand side albeit with the upper one set behind the lower one as per number 02.
I think we may be at cross purposes valve wise. Your backhead does indeed have two valves on the RHS of the firebox, these are the injector steam valves, albeit with what I think are the wrong handles. If you look at your last pic in #215 you have one rod coming up through the splasher with a 90 deg handle, which is correct however there should be another one through a bracket on the end of the splasher as shown in the first pic in #227. The last pic in #217 displays the ommission. These are the injector water valves. As I said last night a bit picky.
Regards
Martin
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
The penny has dropped and I now understand what you are getting at. Yes I see the missing rod and handle coming up through the floor from the injectors. I have actually drilled holes in the tank bottom for the rods from the injectors. I'll consider of I can add the missing rod and handle in the cab but it will be difficult now with the roof on.

I think you are also correct regarding the handles on the water valves and will change them. There are quite a few photos of preserved BR tender locos and they all have the handles you mention in line with the cab drawing. 80078 has them also. Is that "yours" ? Many thanks for pointing out these issues.
Cheers,
Peter
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Peter
I realise that I'm the irritating know it all and I really don't want to come across as the rivet counter, I'm pleased you have understood my point, do as you see fit, it's your model and mighty fine on your part, you should be very proud of your effort. Mine is 80105 which is currently in so many pieces that I couldn't easily illustrate my point. Although now located in Scotland it never was a scottish region allocation. By contrast 80002 was a Motherwell/Polmadie/Beattock engine so had no english lodgings until preservation. I now wonder whether there might have been a change in specification for detail differences such as valve handles, I may make some enquiries.
Kind Regards
Martin
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
Not irritating at all. It's good that you are willing to share what you know about the class. This is the photo of 80078 under restoration. It clearly illustrates the points you make regarding the missing control rod and handle to the injector and has the 4 spoke handles with "bashing peg" on the water valves. I can change the handles any time but if you dig up further information please let me know.
20180927_215600.jpg

The pick ups are now fitted and wired up and the first test run has been made.
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Cheers,
Peter
 

Cliff Williams

Western Thunderer
Peter it looks stunning! You have got me keen to do one of my MOK kits, but I am not opening the box until I bash life into the diesels needing finished.

Keep it up, inspirational stuff.
 

Cliff Williams

Western Thunderer
Can’t decide which one to get the ball rolling...Q1 seems like a possibility....but with a few in strategic reserve I may go off on a different tack. Looks like they are up there with the Finney Duchess kits anyway.

BW
Cliff
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Cliff,
Having only built the Martin Finney A3 and drooled over the Finney 7 A4 kit which I have and will be my my next build, I would say they very much on a par. Some might argue that they are better, but I'm sure you will draw your own conclusions. All I can say is that after 30 years of building kit sfrom the low and mid range suppliers, both were a revelation to me and a pleasure to build.
I hope at some point to build an F7 Duchess, but the W1 may temp me first.
Cheers,
Peter
 

Cliff Williams

Western Thunderer
Hi Peter if you do decide to do the Finney Duchess then take a look at my build on them in the Gazette archives. If you cannot find it I could always do an updated version of it for WT.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Cliff,
Yes I remember the article well. Definitely a reference work for building the kit and it will be perused again along with Richard Lambert's build on here, should I take the plunge at some point.

I recall you used a rather niffty method to solder coal pusher castings to the bunker base. A really nice piece of work.
Cheers ,
Peter
 
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