Peter Cross
Western Thunderer
Car paints come in many shades of the same colour for matching to you car, depending on the age of the paint and amount of fade.
Finney7 Princess Coronation Build
- Thread starter Focalplane
- Start date
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
And City of Birmingham has two shades. . . .
I am holding off getting any green paint for the time being!
I am holding off getting any green paint for the time being!
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
The news of the day (so far) is that I have fitted the recommended (in the instructions) compensation system to the three driving axles:
This consists of a pivoted central beam on the front axle (to the right) and two lateral beams between the sides of the rear two axles. There isn't very much vertical play which is as I had hoped and with a decent amount of weight on the axles all should work well. I note that some expert modellers haven't used this system, opting for a simpler one with the rear axle fixed.
I was in half a mind to used a set of Slaters' sprung hornblocks that are in an un-started David Andrews Patriot kit I bought a couple of years ago, but decided to go along with the recommended system (which bears a strong resemblance to MOK's compensation on the 14XX. Now that is going from the sublime to the the ridiculous!)
Paul
This consists of a pivoted central beam on the front axle (to the right) and two lateral beams between the sides of the rear two axles. There isn't very much vertical play which is as I had hoped and with a decent amount of weight on the axles all should work well. I note that some expert modellers haven't used this system, opting for a simpler one with the rear axle fixed.
I was in half a mind to used a set of Slaters' sprung hornblocks that are in an un-started David Andrews Patriot kit I bought a couple of years ago, but decided to go along with the recommended system (which bears a strong resemblance to MOK's compensation on the 14XX. Now that is going from the sublime to the the ridiculous!)
Paul
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
I started to build the utility front frame for 46235 this evening and the very first instruction says "tap 10BA". So I look at my set of taps, slowly acquired at various shows from Eileens Emporium (no connection) and I have 6BA, 8BA, 12BA and 14BA. But no 10BA. The set of three taps have been ordered but in the meantime the project will have to move in the direction of bogie and pony.
Paul
Paul
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
So far today I have taken a complete break from model railways. The sun shone and we went for a picnic on the beach at Ste. Marie le Mer, east of Perpignan. The break was necessary because last evening I did some stupid soldering of 46235's bogie, getting it all wrong and having to bring out the Proxxon flame thrower. All the parts have been salvaged and cleaned up so nothing but time has been lost.
Paul
Paul
I wonder why on earth not? True there are "acrylics" and "acrylics" (and I would only use the latter), but I use pretty well nothing else. I painted my full size Fowler Ploughing engine with acrylics 19 years ago and they still look as good as new:-
And I bought them from my local car refinishers, and they are thinned with "cellulose" thinners!
I just discovered that Oxford Diecast are selling a 4mm scale model of my engine - I do hope they have done the paintwork justice!
Best Wishes,
Howard
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Howard
I do know where Larry is coming from. My father's business was in metal finishing which included plating, anodizing and spraying. The spray shop was the least toxic of the three and all the paint used was cellulose and all the work was popped into an oven to bake. If you have ever owned an Anglepoise lamp, the metal shades were finished at Ashton & Moore's in the Jewellery Quarter, Birmingham. The company still exists but with new ownership.
As the second son I was actively discouraged, that is TOLD, that my future was not in the business, so I had to go my own way. As a result I never had the opportunity to learn the trade but instead took up a (geological) hammer as the tool of my profession. The hammer probably explains my ham-fisted efforts at times!
If you have ever wondered how to get paint into the inner corners of a tender, then the best method was to use an electrostatic spray station. This caused sprayed paint to go around corners and reach hidden areas. They were available in the 1970s but I have no idea where the technology has gone since then.
Your ploughing engine is superb. I always wanted to own a Showman's Caravan having spent one night in one in Wiltshire.
Best wishes, Paul
I do know where Larry is coming from. My father's business was in metal finishing which included plating, anodizing and spraying. The spray shop was the least toxic of the three and all the paint used was cellulose and all the work was popped into an oven to bake. If you have ever owned an Anglepoise lamp, the metal shades were finished at Ashton & Moore's in the Jewellery Quarter, Birmingham. The company still exists but with new ownership.
As the second son I was actively discouraged, that is TOLD, that my future was not in the business, so I had to go my own way. As a result I never had the opportunity to learn the trade but instead took up a (geological) hammer as the tool of my profession. The hammer probably explains my ham-fisted efforts at times!
If you have ever wondered how to get paint into the inner corners of a tender, then the best method was to use an electrostatic spray station. This caused sprayed paint to go around corners and reach hidden areas. They were available in the 1970s but I have no idea where the technology has gone since then.
Your ploughing engine is superb. I always wanted to own a Showman's Caravan having spent one night in one in Wiltshire.
Best wishes, Paul
Pencarrow
Western Thunderer
Sorry to take the thread slightly off on a tangent but thank you Simon for the suggested website. Seems good value compared to the usual show retailers.
One question, would you mind translating all this please - what do each of these do?
adrian
Flying Squad
The taps cuts a thread inside a hole, eg in a nut, the die cuts the thread on the outside of the bar, eg for a bolt.
For the taps when cutting a thread the first cutting teeth on the tap can be tapered off. It doesn't produced a tapered thread it just refers to the shape of the tap. A taper tap has the longest lead in to the full thread cutting so it is easier to get the thread square to the hole when cutting but you do need the hole to be open so that you can run the tap all the way through. The 2nd tap has some chamfering to the cutting thread but not as much as the taper tap. If you are only going to by one then this would be the one I'd get.
The plug tap has virtually no chamfer to the cutting thread and are designed so you can get a thread cut to the bottom of a blind hole. Although they are difficult to start cutting the thread. You'd start the thread with a 2nd tap and then finish with the plug.
The CS stands for Carbon steel and HSS for high speed steel, basically the HSS is more hardwearing and retaining their cutting edge for longer. However this is only really an issue if you are cutting threads in steel. If you only need it for brass / nickel silver then carbon steel is fine.
Basically start with a couple of CS 2nd taps and see how it goes from there.
For the taps when cutting a thread the first cutting teeth on the tap can be tapered off. It doesn't produced a tapered thread it just refers to the shape of the tap. A taper tap has the longest lead in to the full thread cutting so it is easier to get the thread square to the hole when cutting but you do need the hole to be open so that you can run the tap all the way through. The 2nd tap has some chamfering to the cutting thread but not as much as the taper tap. If you are only going to by one then this would be the one I'd get.
The plug tap has virtually no chamfer to the cutting thread and are designed so you can get a thread cut to the bottom of a blind hole. Although they are difficult to start cutting the thread. You'd start the thread with a 2nd tap and then finish with the plug.
The CS stands for Carbon steel and HSS for high speed steel, basically the HSS is more hardwearing and retaining their cutting edge for longer. However this is only really an issue if you are cutting threads in steel. If you only need it for brass / nickel silver then carbon steel is fine.
Basically start with a couple of CS 2nd taps and see how it goes from there.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
My order for the 10BA taps had already left when Simon posted the Tracy Tools link. I need to try them out. Thank you, Adrian, for your concise answers.
Last evening I completed the two compensation beams for the front bogie and added the BA nuts to the 8mm wires. However, although the instructions say use 16BA nuts I only had 14BA nuts and even then I had to drill the threads out to fit them over 0.8mm wire! Luckily I had the 14BA nuts in stock.
Last evening I completed the two compensation beams for the front bogie and added the BA nuts to the 8mm wires. However, although the instructions say use 16BA nuts I only had 14BA nuts and even then I had to drill the threads out to fit them over 0.8mm wire! Luckily I had the 14BA nuts in stock.
JimG
Western Thunderer
CS = Carbon Steel
HSS = High Speed Steel
The high speed steel is much harder than the carbon steel and HSS tools generally keep their edge much longer than carbon steel. These prices are quite cheap for HSS taps and dies and I would probably question how good they actually are. I believe that HSS taps are thread milled and the milling is not great on some of the cheaper ones. For occasional modelling use, carbon taps are fine. I have some carbon taps that are still doing a good job after forty years or so.
The taper tap is really necessary for starting a thread since the taper on the tap starts the threading comparatively gently with a shallow cut and the cut gets deeper as the tap gets furth into the hole. The second taper has a steeper, shorter taper and might be useful if a lot of shorter, blind holes have to be tapped where the longer taper of the taper tap doesn't allow sufficient engagement to provide a decent part thread for a plug tap. The plug tap has no taper and is necessary if you want to tap a lot of blind holes to the bottom of the hole, which the taper taps wouldn't allow. If you only can have one tap, then the first taper allows you to do almost every job bar tapping blind holes, provided there is enough clearance behind a hole to allow the tap to go through onto the parallel part of its body to cut a full thread. The next tap would probably be the plug tap to deal with blind holes. The third tap would be the second taper for those occasional situations where the longer taper on the first taper tap is a problem. It is not recommended to try starting a thread with a plug tap.
Some makes of plug tap come with a point on the end which was necessary for the manufacturing process but is a right PITA when threading to the bottom of a blind hole. The point can be ground off to avoid this, but should be done carefully to avoid messing up the first thread on the tap.
There is usually only one die to cut external threads and most dies are usually split dies which can be adjusted in a holder to set the diameter of the thread. So some form of die holder is required. The dies also have a plug side and a taper side, the taper side being used to start a thread and the plug side to allow a thread to be finished up to a face.
For thread cutting a lubricant helps a lot and I use Trefolex which works very well. Don't buy a large jar of it. I was given a small amount some forty-odd years ago and I'm still using it.
[Later] I have used this supplier recently for a set of HSS 8BA taps and they were very good. Another advantage is that he is only a few miles from my front doorstep so I can get items in the same day.
BA Taps. Highest Quality. Free UK Shipping.
Jim.
HSS = High Speed Steel
The high speed steel is much harder than the carbon steel and HSS tools generally keep their edge much longer than carbon steel. These prices are quite cheap for HSS taps and dies and I would probably question how good they actually are. I believe that HSS taps are thread milled and the milling is not great on some of the cheaper ones. For occasional modelling use, carbon taps are fine. I have some carbon taps that are still doing a good job after forty years or so.
The taper tap is really necessary for starting a thread since the taper on the tap starts the threading comparatively gently with a shallow cut and the cut gets deeper as the tap gets furth into the hole. The second taper has a steeper, shorter taper and might be useful if a lot of shorter, blind holes have to be tapped where the longer taper of the taper tap doesn't allow sufficient engagement to provide a decent part thread for a plug tap. The plug tap has no taper and is necessary if you want to tap a lot of blind holes to the bottom of the hole, which the taper taps wouldn't allow. If you only can have one tap, then the first taper allows you to do almost every job bar tapping blind holes, provided there is enough clearance behind a hole to allow the tap to go through onto the parallel part of its body to cut a full thread. The next tap would probably be the plug tap to deal with blind holes. The third tap would be the second taper for those occasional situations where the longer taper on the first taper tap is a problem. It is not recommended to try starting a thread with a plug tap.
Some makes of plug tap come with a point on the end which was necessary for the manufacturing process but is a right PITA when threading to the bottom of a blind hole. The point can be ground off to avoid this, but should be done carefully to avoid messing up the first thread on the tap.There is usually only one die to cut external threads and most dies are usually split dies which can be adjusted in a holder to set the diameter of the thread. So some form of die holder is required. The dies also have a plug side and a taper side, the taper side being used to start a thread and the plug side to allow a thread to be finished up to a face.
For thread cutting a lubricant helps a lot and I use Trefolex which works very well. Don't buy a large jar of it. I was given a small amount some forty-odd years ago and I'm still using it.
[Later] I have used this supplier recently for a set of HSS 8BA taps and they were very good. Another advantage is that he is only a few miles from my front doorstep so I can get items in the same day.
BA Taps. Highest Quality. Free UK Shipping.
Jim.
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Focalplane
Western Thunderer
No need to apologize, Chris. I have learned, literally, that lateral thinking on threads such as these introduce ideas that would otherwise "die on the vine".
Back to Larry's comment. He is right, of course, as my comment on post #69 has suggested. Other options are certainly available but experience shows that if you take the high road. . . . .
I don't always take the high road, however, because I am not a professional model maker/finisher. I am doing what I do for the love of trains, making things with my hands, and sharing these skills with others including, I hope, one of my grandchildren who is really good at DT (Design and Technology). She wants a multi-tool knife (Leatherman) for her 11th birthday but I think such devices would only be confiscated at school.
Back to Larry's comment. He is right, of course, as my comment on post #69 has suggested. Other options are certainly available but experience shows that if you take the high road. . . . .
I don't always take the high road, however, because I am not a professional model maker/finisher. I am doing what I do for the love of trains, making things with my hands, and sharing these skills with others including, I hope, one of my grandchildren who is really good at DT (Design and Technology). She wants a multi-tool knife (Leatherman) for her 11th birthday but I think such devices would only be confiscated at school.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
The front bogie assembly has had me perplexed for much of the weekend - so much so I even managed to watch to the very end of the Ireland-France rugby match and that was torture! For the first time I feel the instructions are somewhat superficial for what is described as a fairly complex construction.
I am still feeling my way and already know that some un-soldering is required.
The assembly will get done eventually as each time I descend into the railway room it becomes a little bit clearer.
As light relief I have continued to paint the Side Lines coaches.
Paul
I am still feeling my way and already know that some un-soldering is required.
The assembly will get done eventually as each time I descend into the railway room it becomes a little bit clearer.
As light relief I have continued to paint the Side Lines coaches.
Paul
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
And just now I remembered this post:
7mm - Martin Finney 7mm Duchess
The photos are very useful, as is Richard's comment that he didn't compensate one side of the bogie. In that case I won't either!
Paul
7mm - Martin Finney 7mm Duchess
The photos are very useful, as is Richard's comment that he didn't compensate one side of the bogie. In that case I won't either!
Paul
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
This evening I more or less completed the front bogie. I sincerely hope there will be no other construction in the kit as difficult! Thank goodness to Richard's photos linked in my previous post. The soldering needs to be cleaned up but the good news tonight is that the bogie can be whizzed around Penmaenpool, through the scissor crossing, etc., without a hiccup.
In the end I kept the compensation. I had not intended it but the parts simply fell into place so I kept them that way. I have not added the post yet, I thought I would wait until the chassis has been progressed a bit more. I also drilled out the axles to simulate the hollow axles of the prototype.
Here is the prototype:
Paul
In the end I kept the compensation. I had not intended it but the parts simply fell into place so I kept them that way. I have not added the post yet, I thought I would wait until the chassis has been progressed a bit more. I also drilled out the axles to simulate the hollow axles of the prototype.
Here is the prototype:
Paul
Cliff Williams
Western Thunderer
I cut that rear projection off for the bogie pivot, hopeless!
You will need to reduce the rubbing plate width too if you want it to go round 6ft radius, they clout off the draincocks.
You will need to reduce the rubbing plate width too if you want it to go round 6ft radius, they clout off the draincocks.