Wheels for 03 & 04 shunters?

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Steve, I honestly do not know which are which, I've never had any bearings supplied with the wheels I've bought from Slaters? The lower ones I'm sure have been 'recovered' from my MMP 08 kits as those now have the Slaters square type bearings, I've measured some Roxey gearbox ones and they as near as is practicable match the lower drawing.

Finney top hat bearings supplied in the A4 are different again with a spigot OD of 6.38mm and flange dia of 9.54mm

I'll check David Andrews and confirm MMP top hat bearings once 'guests' have departed.

Are your kits all etched, or white metal and do you have customers for all the 03 kits?
 

SteadyRed

Western Thunderer
Got an MMP 08 kit on the desk here:

Overall depth 4.45mm
Flange OD 1.01mm
Brim OD 7.97mm
Hat OD 6.35mm

Hope my dodgy descriptions make sense

Dave
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Got an MMP 08 kit on the desk here:

Overall depth 4.45mm
Flange OD 1.01mm
Brim OD 7.97mm
Hat OD 6.35mm

Hope my dodgy descriptions make sense

Dave

Virtually matches my lower drawing above then, much as I expected, saves me digging my MMP kits out now LOL :thumbs:
 
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SteveO

Guest
Thanks all for looking. David W was going to send bearing specs yesterday but he must have forgotten. I'll remind him next week.

The kits are etched with WM details, like tanks, etc. I have the moulds but I first have to learn to cast - after buying some kit! I haven't advertised anything yet but come Tuesday I'll send something to GOG and set up a thread in the Small Supliers section on RMW (already confirmed with Andy). I'm also setting up a small website which I can trade from and offer a build guide, etc.

Eventually they will be redesigned to current kit standards. I believe they date from 1999 or thereabouts.
 

alcazar

Guest
This is very interesting and worth our support.

I hope you will go on to great things like an 07...and even greater things, like that loco whose name rhymes with the french for balcony.........
 
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SteveO

Guest
Haha! You're a funny chap Jeff. That is WAY out of my league. I am thinking of adding one loco to the range later, but it will be another shunter. The 07 is quite an attractive prototype but I'm thinking of something slightly more spread around the network.

With the castings, I'm thinking of going two ways. Either do it myself with white metal or commission it with lost wax brass. The latter appeals for most parts – the comment I hear most often from kit builders is that they change the couplings or buffers or vac pipes or horns, or whatever, with brass replacements. Although white metal is cheap, I want to avoid the nuisance for builders. Plus, many are still put off soldering white metal parts.

However, the reservoir tanks and exhausts are good candidates for casting so I'm thinking about what I'd need to achieve this on a kitchen hob. A crucible/ladle for melting the metal, a stock of alloy ingots – of which I know nothing – and a good pair of heat-resistant gloves. Is that all I need? What is a good mix of alloy that doesn't resemble butter?
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
and a good pair of heat-resistant gloves. Is that all I need? What is a good mix of alloy that doesn't resemble butter?

I see what you did there... ;-)

I would think a centrifuge for casting properly. MMP kits eschew brass for excellent quality white metal castings, so I wonder if a call to DP might be worth the time?
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
MMP kits eschew brass for excellent quality white metal castings, so I wonder if a call to DP might be worth the time?
I think that contacting MMP is a good idea, particularly to ask about the pewter alloy that is used to produce such good castings. If the preference is brass then a call to Ian Young might be a good idea... or continue your conversation with David White for I am impressed with some recent brass castings done using masters from 3D printing.
 
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SteveO

Guest
Thanks for the advice all. The moulds I have are rubber blocks for pour casting. Very low tech i.e. my level! I'll have a look at Tiranti for supplies and speak to Mr Parkin. Good advice, cheers.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the advice all. The moulds I have are rubber blocks for pour casting. Very low tech i.e. my level!

In the olden days, when Steph was but a lad, he had a kit for building toy soldiers, cannons etc from a company called, I seem to remember, "Prince August" who had a factory in Macroom, ROI. In fact (I must be getting the hang of this computer thing) they are still there - see http://www.princeaugust.ie/

Their web site gives pretty good instructions about using the rubber moulds and is a potential source of the white metal for low temperature casting although I suspect that it might be a bit pricey but possibly worth a shot.

However, the reason for this message is to say that the quality of the castings produced from this set up was surprisingly good, details were good and crisp and one could cast quite fine items, like the cannon wheels, for example. In your position I might just try the lo-tech approach to start with. I know that the Alex Tiranti stuff has a good reputation but the capital outlay may be a bit eye watering.

Of course, we cast loads and loads of soldiers and cannons, because that was the fun bit. Most were never painted though. I remember 'er indoors used to cluck round us, and in retrospect quite rightly, as seven or eight year old boys and liquid metal are not a terribly good combination. In fact, of course, the toy soldiers were really to keep dad happy - rather like Steph's first model railway, and look where that's got us!

Just as a side comment. I and many others like me hve a box of white metal scrap which is a useful source of castable weight for locos, but the rate of accumulation exceeds the rate of usage. I could make a few kilos of this available to you, FOC of course, if we met up at an exhibition (Kettering for example). A few kilos is not much volume, of course, but might be helpful for test castings at least. However, a word of caution - I don't know whether the white metal used for casting in rubber moulds is of a special grade which maybe melts at a low temperature. You'll probably need a metallurgist to tell you that.

Best regards.

Brian
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Dad, Steve,

Yep - there were some good castings out of that lot. I now realise that they were very cleverly designed moulds, for a start the in-gate was huuuuuge in comparison with the size of the casting ; the weight of all the metal in the gate working in the same was as centrifugal or injection casting - to force the material in the detail in the mould.

The moulds themselves were vulcanised rubber, which works very well although they need some sort of autoclave or oven and a press to get them to cure. An alternative would be to use a hard Room Temperature Vulcanising (RTV) rubber, which is a two-part cold-curing rubber. RTV tends to be more expensive than conventional rubbers and the ones for taking metals are more expensive still. They also tend to have shorter life, but with the sorts of volumes in this business that's not going to be much of a concern.

The casting metals all seem to melt around 180-200 deg.C, with pewter a little higher.

Steph
 
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SteveO

Guest
Just as a side comment. I and many others like me hve a box of white metal scrap which is a useful source of castable weight for locos, but the rate of accumulation exceeds the rate of usage. I could make a few kilos of this available to you, FOC of course, if we met up at an exhibition (Kettering for example). A few kilos is not much volume, of course, but might be helpful for test castings at least. However, a word of caution - I don't know whether the white metal used for casting in rubber moulds is of a special grade which maybe melts at a low temperature. You'll probably need a metallurgist to tell you that.

Best regards.

Brian

Thanks so much for the link, and especially the very generous offer! That is very kind of you. I'm not sure if I'll be going to Kettering yet but I hope to know later in the week. I'm really touched by your generosity and I'll let you know as soon as I do. Thank you!
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I'm not sure if I'll be going to Kettering

Hi again Steve. It'll be a pleasure. No problem if you don't get to Kettering. The metal isn't going anywhere! We can meet up at a future exhibition I'm sure. If not Kettering I'll be at Railex, Aylesbury and Guildex, but with the way things are moving for you that might be a bit late. I could ship too, but the cost of postage might make this unrealistic. Two kilos will post for £5.60.

No need to follow this up - I'll leave it up to you to let me know.

Best regards.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
One word, myHermes, much cheaper than the good old PO


That's interesting, Mick, as my experience with GPO has been very good - one ebay parcel only lost and that was refunded in full. On the contrary with Hermes I found them singularly unhelpful when checking a potential lost parcel with them. It turned up at their depot but they initially denied all knowledge of it.

Anyway, I guess for this parcel it'll be worth considering Hermes, if parcel it be, although I doubt I have 5Kg of white metal to send! I'll leave that up to Steve to let me know.

Brian
 

Simon

Flying Squad
I'd stick with the Post Office myself, I send tons of stuff out and find them brilliant.

I't'll be the e-bay bit of Mick's experience that has caused him his problems - brilliant as it is it's also an electronic version of a car boot sale with all the attendant morals and attitudes of a field full of cow pats....

Simon
 
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SteveO

Guest
This project is moving along nicely. I've decided on a couple things, suppliers mostly, and I'm weighing up a couple more options on extras like motor/gearbox units.

It looks like I'm 90% on my way to Kettering. Meeting up with David W would be a bonus, along with a couple more potential suppliers.

I've also been playing around with a simply-designed website, the fruits of which are here...
 
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