7mm Stanier 3P 2-6-2

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 14 December 2019.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Following Ian_C's tip regarding the use of files with safe edges and watching the video he posted, I ground a safe edge on two or three files to give it a go.

    As the etched springs on the frames have the correct profile and length, I've decided to stick with them and save some cash buying castings that are not quite right. However, with my "new" safe edged files in mind, I super glued a strip of thick plastic card to the inside of one of the springs, then snipped the excess and filed to the profile of the etchings. I was short of time and rushing, so I'm sure I can do it better, but for a quick trial I'm quite pleased.

    I need cut a wider strip so I can include a backing to the end and middle support, so this one will be removed and replaced. Sure, it could be done by laminating metal to the etching, but the filing would take much longer. Before continuing, I will re-fettle the metal springs to give crisper edges using a file with safe edge.

    Here's a view from the side. I think it will pass muster when painted.

    And with the middle spring in view to compare.

    I've always know about safe edges on files and have 3 large Vallorbes which have them, but most of my smaller files don't have them. On the ones that do, the safe edges are not square to the cutting edge, so although they don't cut faces I don't want to cut, they don't give accurate right angle cuts either, as is obvious on the de-cusped springs.

    7mmMick, 3 LINK, fenman and 11 others like this.
  2. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I've been at my son's for a few days with only a selection of files, my rivet punch and a cutting mat to work onto. I brough along lots of cut out parts for de-cusping and rivet punching. Back at the bench this afternoon I decide to decorate the tank tops with the ready prepared parts. The inspection plate, tank filler and tank straps positions are pre-etched. The lifting brackets are located via half etch rivets on the tank tops, which when punched out, locate into the underside of the punched rivets in the brackets. Very simple but quite clever. Here are some of the prepared parts laid out on the tank tops. 20200108_192848.jpg
    First up for soldering was the tank strap flanges, lined up on the tank holes with a small cutting broach, then soldered. The inspection plates and the location areas were tinned before sweating in place. Next 0.8mm rod was soldered into the holes from the underside and cleaned up before fitting the lifting brackets.

    Here's the completed sub section after adding the tank fillers and cleaning up. The fillers are Laurie Griffing castings from the spares box. The bases were too tall and needed about 2mm or so filing off the bottom while the rim of the lid was clamped in the vice.

    The handles on the fillers weren't cast very well, so I cut them off and replaced them with coach door handles, soldered into holes drilled in the locking catch. The cross members between the top plates are sacrificial and will be cut off after the plates are soldered to the tank sides.

    Rob Pulham, mswjr, 3 LINK and 9 others like this.
  3. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Looking at the last photo, I've just realised that I have still to add the flanges for the breather pipes to the tank rear and the base for the water level gauge just ahead of the left one.

    Anyway, back to the cab rear bulkhead, where further scratch building of the details was the order of the day. First up was the control handles towards the top either side of the coal hole and a backing plate for the brake standard mounting.

    I then made the other control levers, rods and support brackets as well as the slacking pipe. There is a stowage hook for the slacking pipe on the cab rear and I notice that the hook mount is misaligned. :rant: A sleeve was also added to the mounting bracket for the brake standard to complete it.

    After straightening the hook bracket, that just leaves the oil pots either side of the coal hole and the fixing brackets for the breather pipes to complete this subsection. I'm not sure how long the slacking pipe should be so I took a guess.


    And a view from the bunker side. The excess solder where the hook is fixed needs a big more scraping.

    Here's all the various bits that I fettled up while I was away, with the smaller ones bagged up. The rectangular plate bottom right is the cab floor. It will need some cut outs to clear the rear wheels and Mike Edge designed it to be fixed to the frames and the roof soldered in place on the cab. I'll be fixing the floor to the body and have the roof detachable to allow access for painting. Over to the right are the etched parts for the steam pipes. They have half etch lines on the inside to aid folding, and they seemed fit quite nicely on Mike's build. However, I have also got some cast brass ones from Chowbent which I've had for years, to fall back on if needed.

  4. Deano747

    Deano747 Active Member

    Lovely clean work, as always Peter.

  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Deano.

    Being Nickel Silver helps a lot, as it doesn't show the solder as much as brass and tarnishes less.
    3 LINK, JohnG and Deano747 like this.
  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    So the mounting plate on the slacking pipe has been straightened and the the breather pipe brackets and oil pots added. The oil pots were made from brass strip, nickel silver and copper wire. To get my head around how to make the cab floor fit the body rather than the frames, I've tack soldered the superstructure together and placed it on the frames to work out where clearance is needed for the wheels.


    The etched floor needed cutting to clear the wheels and the fittings added to the cab rear, but is not wide enough to reach the cab cut outs, so a replacement will be made from scratch.

    Here's a side view with the superstructure placed on the running plate. Looks like everything will fit as it should.

    Deano747, Rob Pulham, mswjr and 9 others like this.
  7. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Came across this - one of my dad's photos taken at Leicester Midland (I believe) during the 50's.

    stanier 262.jpg
  8. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Judging by the prototype photos on this thread it looks like another class of loco whereby the location and type of boiler and tank fittings varied depending on the loco number. And the batch it originated from. :eek:
    P A D likes this.
  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Dave,
    Yes there seem to be a number of variations, plus the early and later boilers got switched between locos. I've spotted some with Stanier type sandbox fillers and some with earlier types with a bobble on top. Laurie Griffin does both so I just need to choose one or the other. Some locos also had a strengthening strip riveted across the upper rear bunker plate, but I haven't been able to find any info on which locos and when. Some details will be a best guess but it will be finished as a later batch loco with separate dome and top feed with the original small boiler.
  10. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Hello Peter -

    looking really good - where did you get the valve controls that are mounted on the bulkhead? They look very tidy little castings.

  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Tony,
    Everything on the bulkhead are scratch built apart from the lamp irons which are Griffin.

    I received these today from Sanspariel after ordering on Thursday afternoon so they be quick if items are in stock. They look better than the DA ones onbyhe 4P.


    I owe you for the cast hand wheel so if you want some for the 4P I have more than enough for the 3P.

    Deano747, Len Cattley and 3 LINK like this.
  12. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Thanks Peter -
    I had some of those from Iain a while back, they are very useful.

  13. I've been updating the spreadsheet with details of those engines which had the strengthening strip on the bunker, which was only from the BR days from the evidence found so far. I could not upload it on here, or attach it to a message so have messaged you with the latest version at the other place.
    Best wishes
  14. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Duncan.

    Just been "over the road" and seen the message and sent you a reply.

    Thanks again.
  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    First up yesterday was a correction to the tank top. The rear left hand tank stay coincided with the rear wash out plug on the firebox, so I moved it slightly rearward to clear it. However, on studying the GA it's clear that it should be moved forward so I took it off and repositioned in the correct place. You can just make out the position of the origina and rearward holes, filled with NS rod and and solder.

    After two attempts I finally got the replacement cab floor made. I've added some chequer plate where the coal hole and fire box are and scribed a representation of the planks. I got the bends at the rear incorrect so had to add a piece of waste fret either side to widen it. The slots are for the frame extensions which protrude into the cab.

    Here's a head on shot of the rear cab bulkhead with the sides in place before fitting to the running plate. Apart from the lamp irons all the details were made from spare etchings, tube, wire and waste fret. Once I'd located the tank/cab sides to the bulkheads, I separated the front and rear parts by removing the sacrificial spacers. This allowed for easier fitting of the cab door inserts and handrail knobs.

    Here the tanks and bunker have been soldered to the running plate. There are no tabs, slots or grooves to aid positioning so it's a bit tricky. The sacrificial tank top spacers have now been removed and the tank front pieces will be added after the oil pots and footsteps are in place. Much easier to to it in the flat.

    The rear plate is just tacked to allow fettling of the bunker side plates. I'm not modelling the bunker so will fit a plate just below the upper sides before fitting the rear plate.

    And screwed to the chassis.

    It's beginning to look like a 3P now.

    Here's a view of the cab with a plastic backplate template to check clearances. I'll scratch build the backplate from NS with proprietary castings for the details.

    Finally, here's a view looking into the cab. I thought I'd left enough clearance for the rear driving wheels under the raised footplate, but I could have done with fitting them slightly highter, so will have to deal with that.

    Rob Pulham, neaston, David B and 8 others like this.
  16. Lovely modelling, did I send you the two cab views?
  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Yes, thanks Duncan, you sent me the back head photos.

    Continuing with the tanks, after checking the fit, I decided to separate the the tank fronts from each other before adding the steps, oil pots and piping. Some locos had a large and small oil pot side by side on the tank fronts and others just had the large one. I've chosen to model the latter. I soldered the oil pots on first then clamped the etch in the vice to prevent the pots moving while I soldered in the piping. The pipes were then formed to run in behind the tanks and soldered together to keep them in line. Finally the steps were added before fixing the front pieces to the tanks.

    These are the inner tank parts. The upper one is how they come, with a very tall rim over the half etch locating slot. This was double the height of the outer rim, but from looking at the GA drawing and photos, they should be the same height. Using my vernier calipers I scribed a line 1mm from the top edge, clamped the piece in the vice, than draw filed to remove the material above the line, finally finishing on Emery paper. The lower one is filed ready to fit.

    Here they are after fitting.

    Here's a view of the tanks from the front end.

    At the rear end the bunker is now completed. The side pieces are a little short (or the rear too tall), so I'll file the rear a little and set the beading a little high on the sides which should disguise the discrepancy. All the soldering was done on the inside where possible to minimise the cleaning of excess solder. 20200114_193750.jpg

    And a view from the other side. I see there are some slight gaps to fill.

    Inside thr bunker, a simple flat coal plate rests on some waste fret strips on the sides and cab bulhead.

    Here's a view of the underside.

    And with the body back on the frames. The oil pipes on the tank fronts have been routed inside the tanks and soldered to the inner face.

    When I get back to work on the chassis, that hole in the frames behind the oval aperture will be filled as it is the mounting point for the compensation beam not used.

    Since the turn of the year, various cast parts were ordered from JPL, Laurie Griffin, Sanspareil and today from MOK. Today the Ivatt class 2 chimney arrived from Laurie Griffin. It's very close to the 3P chimney but too tall so I will need to reduce its height. Dave Sharp at MOK has agreed to supply 2 pairs of Stanier pony truck axleboxes/springs after both Warrren Shephard and Sanspareil didn't have stock. I've also received some etched parts for the back head and cab from Finney 7 and have now got all I need to complete the build (apart from a motor and gearbox which I will order from MSC). All told, I will have spent about £150 on the etchings and cast parts, so even allowing for the cost of the castings I already had, that's pretty good value for a locos this size. In fact when you take into account that the echings are nickel silver and high quality to boot, I'm even more pleased.

  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I've left the bunker for now and turned my attention to getting the boiler on. I'm hoping to have it detachable as a unit (firebox, boiler, smokebox). To be able to check the alignment, the smokebox saddle needs to be made up. As it comes, the fixing bolts on the saddle are punch out rivets either side, with the front and rear ones missing. The rivets when punch just did not look the part, so I drilled them out as well as drilling holes for the front and rear edges. Rivets from Prime Miniatures with 1mm shaft were then soldered into the holes from the upper side and the shafts snipped to about the right length to represent the bolts, then filed and smoothed with emery paper. The domes on the upper side were then filed flush. All this was done after the saddle had been curved to shape. Here's the completed unit. 20200117_211019.jpg

    I added some spacers to the underside to help with the alignment of the parts.

    This is the location on the running plate for the saddle. The spacing of the slots for the tabs on the saddle base were wrong, at least the rear one was, being to far back. I could have filed the groove forward, but chose to make another slot with a cutting disc. It's not perfect but can't be seen after fitting the saddle.

    Here's the saddle placed in the slots before soldering.

    Next the fire box, boiler and smokebox were tacked together for a trial fit. After much jiggery pokery, this is the completed unit.

    The back end is designed to slot into half etch grooves in the cab front, but to facilitate srewing together, I knocked up a rear plate, set slightly in from the edges, with a hole drilled and tapped 10 BA. In the smokebox, there is also a tapped hole.

    Here's the unit screwed to the main superstructure.

    At the front it separates at the saddle/smokebox, the saddle being soldered to the running plate.
    And on the chassis.


    The edges of the saddle need a bit of a tweak to get them tight but that's no bother.

    Last edited: 18 January 2020
  19. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Looking good Peter - I like the bolts on the saddle.

    P A D likes this.
  20. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Beautifully clean build as usual. The first loco of yours I came across was a BR Duke of Gloucester, and it inspired me to chop up a Hornby 4mm toy and add DOG etched smoke deflectors and front steps to a coach sheet even though I had no use for the finished loco. Since that time I have followed your progress building the more down-to-earth locos. The current Stanier Class 3 tank is a beauty.
    P A D likes this.