A first kit-build: 3500 Gallon Churchward Tender - 4mm Scale.

[jonte]

Okay, now pretty much more of the same, fellow Westerners.

Except, this time I’m gonna try it t’other way up i.e. secure flare end in vice and bend the side round the former.



So, before I start in earnest, and again with a view to reducing the number of moving parts to attend to while cramping up, I’m also going to stick the part to the former on this occasion, in addition to the former being stuck to the jaw extension. Photo taken just before removal of sticky tape cover.

Next, I’ve cushioned up to the former , a length of hardwood. This will act as a ‘fence’(?)on which to ensure the top edge (now at the bottom) is flush with the o/s diameter of the drill bit I’m using as a former on this occasion.



Now, I’ve coupled the assembly with the other half of the jaw extension an tightened. Already I suspect the part has ‘moved’ from its initial position. The drill bit has also ‘risen’ as the jaws were tightened.

I release and carefully press the drill back to its flush position with the jaws using a steel rule. It remains pressed against the jaws as they are retightened to resist the torque. J-j-j- jive......perhaps not. I’m afraid I couldn’t take the photo and do the do-ins so here’s the rule resting atop the jaws in the after-glow:



Drill now back where it should be.

Now a series of photos showing the ‘side’ being formed as previously using the steel rule to fold.

Please find in next post.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

The result:



Still stuck to the drill with the extra piece of tape used, you can tell the curve is slightly out of alignment, which can be seen more clearly in the next shot, which shows the inside of the curve in relation to the scribed mark I made as described yesterday:



I’ll post the longitudinal view in the next post.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Two things here: the lip or bead on the top edge has gone past the ninety degree angle, no doubt because I over ‘massaged’ the bend with the steel rule at the end. The second: the side is also buckled slightly probably due to same.

Conclusion: I’m sure the alignment issues were the result of the piece reacting to the initial take-up of the clamping of the jaws. I suspect that the rule will need to be used as described to resist the movement of the former at this point, thus maintaining alignment of the brass piece/part, although I gather that will require an extra pair of hands on deck.

Perhaps another factor here was the former itself which is not continuous after the shaft end (if this makes sense?), although this could be and probably is waffle on my part.

Yes, I’m sure my suggestions would overcome this issue, however, I’m not really sure whether there any benefits of this approach over my last. Now, one or two thoughts occurred earlier as to how I could improve on the first method (fold the flare instead of the body), however, in the heat of the day, I’ve forgotten what they were........

Into garden and relax, I rather think.

Thanks for reading, and if anyone has any more thoughts on the matter, I’d be glad to hear them.

Oh hang on; forgot to mention a good point with my most recent attempt: the drill bit being of wider diameter to the rod I was intending to use has produced a more agreeable radius than last time.

TTFN

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Hi again, fellow Westerners.

Last go today.

Method two again but with a longer section of brass and a wider - 2.5mm (approx) - diameter pin from a hinge as a former.

Decided also to place leading edge (which of course will be the top of the tender on the model) in centre in the centre of the former instead of proud or level with the outside diameter as on previous occasions to see if it made a difference (I omitted this bit from the photos as apart from that, it was the same as the shots in my previous posts)


The photos show each end of the flare (they were in focus when I took them so not sure what happened there - apologies).

Overall, I have to admit they do look more GWR in form than the previous attempts so that was a plus. I think placing the leading edge at the centre of the former is significant as is the wider diameter of the former; perhaps I could go wider again, but placing against sacrificial tender side, the flare starts in the right place, so perhaps not.

In both photos, the part has just been wedged into the jaws to support it while I take the shot.

In the first, I’m quite happy with the flare. Not so with the second.

When I removed the part from the jaws, it was apparent that the end subject of the second photo had come adrift from the sticky tape at that end for some reason. This time, it wasn’t torque causing the issue: I held a steel rule at each end of the piece to keep the former in place while my wife tightened the vice. This a little concerning.

Ah, well, another day another dollar. A bit nearer my goal, but still issues to resolve and further cogitation required.

Thank goodness I didn’t dive straight into the kit.

Cheers everyone.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Blighted by a distinct lack of intelligence, fellow Westerners, compounded by the concentration span of a gnat, means that one is easily confused.

After yesterday’s toils and tribulations, I began to lose to lose track of where I was up to: which method was which, what diameter worked best with which particular method, should I fold the flare or body, where do I place the piece in relation to the former......etc. Sure, the benefits of chronicling a build in this manner mean I can go back and refresh my memory. However, I prefer to take stock in my own mind, which rather brings me back to where I started this post: confused. And thus back to the beginning of the thread, Method 1, when I wasn’t so confused. So start again. Which is what I did today.

What I liked about Method 1 was that little dexterity was required. No fiddling about with bits before clamping the vice. It also produced an even flare along its length, another issue with the extended jaws and vice of the later method. The only problem I now recall on the first occasion, was that the larger diameter of the former used produced an overscale flare which started too far down the side of the tender, and didn’t attain a ninety degree angle of the top to the side. One benefit of all this testing and trial and error, was that it produced a former that seemed to combat the first of these two, the third being addressed by bringing the ‘bend’ up to a ninety degree angle. Bingo!

But this is me - and my luck - and nothing seems straightforward in my world.

The problem with using a narrower former (remember the brass door hinge-pin?) was that I couldn’t find anything thin enough (the carpenters’ pencil was far too broad for the task here) to provide the clamping force required, so had to resort to using the broadest screwdriver I could muster. On the smooth, curved surface of the former, it was difficult to make purchase, and even so, whether due to the reduced surface of the former itself, or perhaps the hardness of the brass testpiece being tested providing too much resistance - or a bit of both - I couldn’t stop the brass from popping out from under the former. I persevered, but apart from anything else, the former now produced an ‘over scale’ flare AND in the wrong position....



Another brass test piece but same method (Method 1, Jonte!) and go again with a narrower former, which might also make it easier - why?

Ditto- and add to the list of unsuitability: unevenness of flare along length

Right. Back out with the vice and sticky tape (not a clue what Method that was -2B?), but no way was I going to entertain those extended jaws........

Keeping it simple, because quite honestly I was getting a little browned off, I decided to bend the flare at the top to save inverting the test piece in the vice, so lining up the scribed line with the top of the vice (guesstimate as the jaws are rounded with the serrations below the head of the vice) and then lining up the former so it’s bottom edge was above the scribed line - a thin line of double sided tape stuck above the scribed line of the test piece helped here - I gingerly tightened the jaws and hoped for the best.

Then I just went for it.

And voila! A flare. A flare which appeared to be to scale and more or less in the right place. It was also even along its length.

(I’ve omitted the set up but photographed the outcomes which are shown in the following post due to quota issues).

Okay, the centre needed a tad of adjustment which was conducted out of the vice on the bench on the bench, using the capenters’ Pencil against the former which I just held in place.

But, do you want to know what I THINK made a difference? Just before this last attempt, I annealed the test piece as usual BUT, on this occasion, I held it in the flame CONTINUOUSLY.......and kept it there. You see, the brass sheet I’ve been using is a K&S offering from some time ago. I’ve noticed before with this stuff that it doesn’t seem amenable to the annealing process as I believe it should; it certainly, in my experience, doesn’t go through the usual colour change associated with brass. It just creates a yellow flame which extinguishes before then returning and extinguishing again. I don’t know why this happens, but previously, not wishing to end up with a molten blob, I’ve usually finished the process after three minutes or so. On this occasion, however, probably because I was past caring whether it perished or not, I just held it there in the flame...as day passed to night, night to.....okay, now Im just exaggerating, but you get the idea.

Funnily enough, it didn’t melt - perhaps it’s Kryptonite - but I could certainly feel the difference when bending: much more malleable. Conclusion: remove some fret from kit with piercing saw and test to destruction to familiarise myself with annealing qualities of the kit-brass. When will I ever be able to make a start on the kit

What I’ve learnt from all this, fellow Westerners, is that a clamp of some sort is vital here due to the forces involved - especially with the metal Ive been using - like it or not, and as the former gets narrower and therefore the surface area smaller, the greater the resistive forces appear to be. Why that’s the case is beyond me, but that’s what I’ve found.
No way am I going to use that baby-vice of mine for the main event - the inaccuracies are just too great - and the metal HAS to be almost as malleable as plasticine.

I’m hoping that the metal of the kit is a little more malleable and testing as mentioned will help to determine this, so that’s one factor addressed, and because of its length and precision, the Metalsmith bending bars - aided by my double sided sticky friend - should help to ease the lining up process and thereby reduce the risk of unevenness of flare.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

From previous post:



Jonte

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Blighted by a distinct lack of intelligence, fellow Westerners, compounded by the concentration span of a gnat, means that one is easily confused.

After yesterday’s toils and tribulations, I began to lose to lose track of where I was up to: which method was which, what diameter worked best with which particular method, should I fold the flare or body, where do I place the piece in relation to the former......etc. Sure, the benefits of chronicling a build in this manner mean I can go back and refresh my memory. However, I prefer to take stock in my own mind, which rather brings me back to where I started this post: confused. And thus back to the beginning of the thread, Method 1, when I wasn’t so confused. So start again. Which is what I did today.

What I liked about Method 1 was that little dexterity was required. No fiddling about with bits before clamping the vice. It also produced an even flare along its length, another issue with the extended jaws and vice of the later method. The only problem I now recall on the first occasion, was that the larger diameter of the former used produced an overscale flare which started too far down the side of the tender, and didn’t attain a ninety degree angle of the top to the side. One benefit of all this testing and trial and error, was that it produced a former that seemed to combat the first of these two, the third being addressed by bringing the ‘bend’ up to a ninety degree angle. Bingo!

But this is me - and my luck - and nothing seems straightforward in my world.

The problem with using a narrower former (remember the brass door hinge-pin?) was that I couldn’t find anything thin enough (the carpenters’ pencil was far too broad for the task here) to provide the clamping force required, so had to resort to using the broadest screwdriver I could muster. On the smooth, curved surface of the former, it was difficult to make purchase, and even so, whether due to the reduced surface of the former itself, or perhaps the hardness of the brass testpiece being tested providing too much resistance - or a bit of both - I couldn’t stop the brass from popping out from under the former. I persevered, but apart from anything else, the former now produced an ‘over scale’ flare AND in the wrong position....

View attachment 124952 View attachment 124951

Another brass test piece but same method (Method 1, Jonte!) and go again with a narrower former, which might also make it easier - why?

Ditto- and add to the list of unsuitability: unevenness of flare along length

Right. Back out with the vice and sticky tape (not a clue what Method that was -2B?), but no way was I going to entertain those extended jaws........

Keeping it simple, because quite honestly I was getting a little browned off, I decided to bend the flare at the top to save inverting the test piece in the vice, so lining up the scribed line with the top of the vice (guesstimate as the jaws are rounded with the serrations below the head of the vice) and then lining up the former so it’s bottom edge was above the scribed line - a thin line of double sided tape stuck above the scribed line of the test piece helped here - I gingerly tightened the jaws and hoped for the best.

Then I just went for it.

And voila! A flare. A flare which appeared to be to scale and more or less in the right place. It was also even along its length.

(I’ve omitted the set up but photographed the outcomes which are shown in the following post due to quota issues).

Okay, the centre needed a tad of adjustment which was conducted out of the vice on the bench on the bench, using the capenters’ Pencil against the former which I just held in place.

But, do you want to know what I THINK made a difference? Just before this last attempt, I annealed the test piece as usual BUT, on this occasion, I held it in the flame CONTINUOUSLY.......and kept it there. You see, the brass sheet I’ve been using is a K&S offering from some time ago. I’ve noticed before with this stuff that it doesn’t seem amenable to the annealing process as I believe it should; it certainly, in my experience, doesn’t go through the usual colour change associated with brass. It just creates a yellow flame which extinguishes before then returning and extinguishing again. I don’t know why this happens, but previously, not wishing to end up with a molten blob, I’ve usually finished the process after three minutes or so. On this occasion, however, probably because I was past caring whether it perished or not, I just held it there in the flame...as day passed to night, night to.....okay, now Im just exaggerating, but you get the idea.

Funnily enough, it didn’t melt - perhaps it’s Kryptonite - but I could certainly feel the difference when bending: much more malleable. Conclusion: remove some fret from kit with piercing saw and test to destruction to familiarise myself with annealing qualities of the kit-brass. When will I ever be able to make a start on the kit

What I’ve learnt from all this, fellow Westerners, is that a clamp of some sort is vital here due to the forces involved - especially with the metal Ive been using - like it or not, and as the former gets narrower and therefore the surface area smaller, the greater the resistive forces appear to be. Why that’s the case is beyond me, but that’s what I’ve found.
No way am I going to use that baby-vice of mine for the main event - the inaccuracies are just too great - and the metal HAS to be almost as malleable as plasticine.

I’m hoping that the metal of the kit is a little more malleable and testing as mentioned will help to determine this, so that’s one factor addressed, and because of its length and precision, the Metalsmith bending bars - aided by my double sided sticky friend - should help to ease the lining up process and thereby reduce the risk of unevenness of flare.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte

Huzzah, yea and verily! Practice and Progress dance merrily towards Perfection. Well done on the successful outcome. And for having seemingly asbestos hands And for sharing your experiences with us; very useful. I must admit, I’ve not done much annealing of sheet brass of late, so I can’t confirm or deny your suspicions regarding the reasons for the substrate bending to your will. Maybe the act of chomping the sheets from a bigger sheet hardens the K&S* brass? Don’t know. I found this thread over there: Annealing metals
An interesting comment on the process for ferrous and non-ferrous metals from Martin Wynne.

*I get my sheet stuff from Eileen’s; not sure where Derek sources it from.. Or Albion Alloys.. their stuff is very consistent...

Keep on keeping on

Cheers

Jan

 

[SLNCR57]

This is most interesting, as a fairly new kit builder myself. I found the drilling table from
Metalsmith (no connection etc etc) with built in radius forming bars most helpful in curving the flares and other bits on a rather curvaceous Irish tank loco.

 

[SimonT]

Jonte,
try the Guy Williams approach. Firstly the flare only goes about 30 degrees out of the vertical and the prototype had a radius of 9-10inches.
This is crop of the GA in our instructions which was traced from a Swindon GA.
Guy's technique was to clamp the side between two pieces of wood, he used oak to have a tool to last a life time, which has the curve formed into the top edge. He clamped the side between the wood in a vice and bent them using finger pressure. The radius of the edge needs to be smaller than the desired radius by about 10-15%, there is no exact figure. You could use a piece of metal to press against the side. Better still is to rub the formed curve with a piece of wood along the axis of the fold, an old metal working trick that is getting lost as Silicon Valley takes over the world.


Guy's books are well worth getting hold of for both inspration and access to true craftsmanship.

In 7mm I just clamp the side in a vice with the start of the fold level with a 5mm drill and just fold over the flare with my thumbs (both hands) pushing agains the drill held in place with my fingers. 4.5mm works for the vertical curve at the back corners. I have used the shaft of a suitable sized screwdriver to obtain a former that is long enough to hold with my fingers.
Hope this helps,
Simon

 

[jonte]

Huzzah, yea and verily! Practice and Progress dance merrily towards Perfection. Well done on the successful outcome. And for having seemingly asbestos hands And for sharing your experiences with us; very useful. I must admit, I’ve not done much annealing of sheet brass of late, so I can’t confirm or deny your suspicions regarding the reasons for the substrate bending to your will. Maybe the act of chomping the sheets from a bigger sheet hardens the K&S* brass? Don’t know. I found this thread over there: Annealing metals
An interesting comment on the process for ferrous and non-ferrous metals from Martin Wynne.

*I get my sheet stuff from Eileen’s; not sure where Derek sources it from.. Or Albion Alloys.. their stuff is very consistent...

Keep on keeping on

Cheers

Jan

A masterly crafted reply that never fails to lift my sagging spirits

Most kind of you, Jan, to attach the link - your interest is really appreciated, although how you manage to read through all the incoherent meanderings is beyond me. True grit!

I’m afraid I can’t take any credit for the asbestos pinkies: an old set of pliers take the strain in the flame, and the steel rule still provides the grunt for forming in the main. Is it me, or does that last sentence sound like ‘Rap’? (Drop the mic ).

Yep. Strange stuff that K&S; something to do with its lettuce, from what the scientists tell us.

It will be interesting to see how the softer metal of the kit behaves when heated. As I mentioned in my previous post, I’m going to release some of the fret and use it as a test. If I test to destruction and note the prior colour changes, it should prevent tears when I do it for real.

I’ve an account with Eileen’s so your pointer is duly noted for future projects, unless of course Derek has reliable sources elsewhere

Here’s to keeping on keeping on.

Luv n best.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

This is most interesting, as a fairly new kit builder myself. I found the drilling table from
Metalsmith (no connection etc etc) with built in radius forming bars most helpful in curving the flares and other bits on a rather curvaceous Irish tank loco.

Hi SLNCR57, and thank you for interest and support

Funnily enough, when searching for a suitable replacement, I noted the drilling tables - I think even Screwfix does one at a reasonable price - and it crossed my mind that they might be useful for our purposes. Having recently purchased the Metalsmith bending bars and their excellent service (usual caveat), I shall be interested to see what they’re offering so thank you for the pointer

If that’s a first attempt at a kit, you’d never tell. Well done, sir.

An interesting subject, and might I add, your scenery appears to have a real sense of place. Must investigate further

Kind regards

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Jonte,
try the Guy Williams approach. Firstly the flare only goes about 30 degrees out of the vertical and the prototype had a radius of 9-10inches. View attachment 124962
This is crop of the GA in our instructions which was traced from a Swindon GA.
Guy's technique was to clamp the side between two pieces of wood, he used oak to have a tool to last a life time, which has the curve formed into the top edge. He clamped the side between the wood in a vice and bent them using finger pressure. The radius of the edge needs to be smaller than the desired radius by about 10-15%, there is no exact figure. You could use a piece of metal to press against the side. Better still is to rub the formed curve with a piece of wood along the axis of the fold, an old metal working trick that is getting lost as Silicon Valley takes over the world.

View attachment 124964
Guy's books are well worth getting hold of for both inspration and access to true craftsmanship.

In 7mm I just clamp the side in a vice with the start of the fold level with a 5mm drill and just fold over the flare with my thumbs (both hands) pushing agains the drill held in place with my fingers. 4.5mm works for the vertical curve at the back corners. I have used the shaft of a suitable sized screwdriver to obtain a former that is long enough to hold with my fingers.
Hope this helps,
Simon

Hi Simon

Now this really is enlightening, Simon, and finally provides a solution to what I considered the crux of the problem.

I think I rather convinced myself that the top edge (the bead) was at ninety degrees to the sides, however, when using a former of anything near the correct diameter/radius, it always ends up looking over-scale and ‘too far down’ the side, which of course it has to be attain its right angle form. Frustratingly, the very first flare I formed using the most basic method, used an ‘as-near-as-dammit’ former to the correct radius, which assumed something of the GW look, but contained some of the associated problems I’ve been harping on about. Interestingly, for me anyway , I didn’t’ ‘bend’ it to its full ninety degrees limit, abandoning it around say fifty degrees, which is probably why it looked more the part.

So in light of your valuable assistance, Simon, what I now need to do is employ a former nearing the required radius (possibly more acute to allow for ‘spring’ in the metal as advised by Guy), mark a line as I’ve been doing level with where the bend in the flare starts in relation to the tender side, position the former ‘centrally’ to ensure the bend starts on the line, and raise to sixty degrees or thereabouts. Choosing the easiest method to achieve this while keeping the flare even along its length could still be a challenge - for me - you make it sound so easy, but I think you underestimate your skills, Simon , but it’s good to know that yet another top modeller uses these techniques to secure a favourable outcome.

Your knowledge and taking of time to help me, Simon, really is appreciated.

It has indeed lightened my burden.

I shall of course be adding Guy’s books to my collection as you advise.

Kind regards,

Jonte.

 

[SimonT]

Jonte,
if you can, I recommend that you transfer the work into the vertical by holding it all in a vice. That way you can see everything that you are doing. Employ a third hand to learn how to manipulate all the bits, even if it does land you another SLJ!
This is one of the tender jobs that I really enjoy as it does require some skill to execute properly; making a right angle fold on a half etched line pales against forming curves. Practice with some scrap until you get used to where everything needs to go, including those thumbs! Even bending bits of etch surround over a drill bit to obtain the correct profile is good learning.

I just learnt from people who really knew what they are doing, such as Guy, and who told us all in their writings. I am still learning and working with Dikitiri and the rest if the F7 Shower demands an ever higher standard.
Good luck!
Simon

 

[jonte]

Jonte,
if you can, I recommend that you transfer the work into the vertical by holding it all in a vice. That way you can see everything that you are doing. Employ a third hand to learn how to manipulate all the bits, even if it does land you another SLJ!
This is one of the tender jobs that I really enjoy as it does require some skill to execute properly; making a right angle fold on a half etched line pales against forming curves. Practice with some scrap until you get used to where everything needs to go, including those thumbs! Even bending bits of etch surround over a drill bit to obtain the correct profile is good learning.

I just learnt from people who really knew what they are doing, such as Guy, and who told us all in their writings. I am still learning and working with Dikitiri and the rest if the F7 Shower demands an ever higher standard.
Good luck!
Simon

Indeed I shall, sir.

Thank you.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

I was hoping to have made a little more progress by now, fellow Westerners, but unfortunately I spent most of yesterday worrying about my little pal, Olive (my pet Tortoise), who’d picked up a nasty infection as a result of a wound to one of his back legs. More like a dog than a tort, he’s been enjoying the recent sunny spell outdoors of a daytime, and joins in everything I do whether I’m gardening, modelling or just sitting outside enjoying the weather. The problem with him being so friendly, is that he’s so eager to see me that he literally races towards me, barging through everything in his way including a low box hedge which borders the parterres, the lower branches of which have cut his leg. Well at least I think it’s the cause.



With the current Covid crisis, it’s difficult to see the vet, so it becomes an exercise in attaching photographs to a descriptive email so that the vet can make a diagnosis/prognosis, followed by a telephone consultation later in the day. Then it’s off to the practice - a fair drive from where we live - where the admin bring the medications to the car after we’ve settled the bill over the phone. It’s an excellent idea and we’re most grateful to all concerned, but it takes the whole day to resolve.

Despite the medication, he was unsettled all night the poor little thing, and I couldn’t sleep properly worrying about him (we remember blue bottles pestering him the day before while we sat with him in the garden which I had to keep wafting away, so the extra worry is to watch out for any maggots which are deadly, and which the medication can’t address).

Anyway, he seems a little better today and slept for a couple of hours between my feet after lunch - when he’s as tired as this, his head falls from his shell which rests on the floor. Fingers crossed he’s better soon (the bonus is that he enjoys his antibiotic with a morsel of banana, a rare treat).

Meanwhile, while waiting for the vet to ring yesterday, I popped to the local DIY shop which is a gold mine for bits n bobs n offcuts of wood n such, and picked up a couple of short lengths of timber. You see, fellow Westerners, prior to this most recent crisis, @SimonT ’s recent and helpful post got me thinking about Guy Williams’ method of using a shaped item as a suitable former over which to fabricate a GWR flare. Useless with a plane or router (well I would be if so had one) or even sandpaper, imitating Guy’s shapen piece of oak was a non-starter, but I did have a couple of lengths of brass tube of near-as-dammit the right diameter, so this/they were the starting point.

The rest sort of developed from there.

Deciding to use the brass tubing as a datum, I thought it a good place to start, so with my wife holding down one end and me the other, I lay the scriber on its side on the granite worktop and scribed a line along its length. It didn’t matter whereabouts on the tube it was drawn at this stage, the idea was just to ensure a ‘straight’ line.



So today, I made a wooden box to act as a cheap n cheerful jig around which to form the flare. It was supposed to be ‘U’ shaped, but in the high winds and attempting to beat the impending shower, I sort of lost my way gluing up the bits and so this is what I ended up with (I suppose I could have used an old wooden mitre box, but I didn’t think of that until after I’d started. ‘I’ve started so.....’.)

Here are a couple of photos which I hope will explain it all better:



And here’s how I’m hoping it will all go together:



The nuts, bolts and washers were part of some odds and ends I salvaged and which litter my tool box, and the lengths of brass tubing I already had (a tad short of 5mm dia.).

One of the bolts secures my new steel rule through the hole at one end, while part of the washer fixes it at the other. The extended pencil lines are there in case I want to alter its position on the jig.

Essentially, the rule fixes the tender sides and end to the jig so that the edge can be formed over the nearest of the two brass tubes which sit on the tray on the top of the jig. If the ‘stop’ had been immediately behind the former at the front, it would have been difficult to get my pinkies in to make the fold, as advised by @Lyndhurstman and Simon.

The tubes aren’t fixed and will rely on me pressing on them to keep them in place and/or blue tak or sticky tape.

The procedure is to fix the rule in place but only loosely do up the nuts at the back of the bolts, and once the tender sides and end are sandwiched between the rule and jig, the former is turned until the scribed line is at the centre, then the tender sides are adjusted so that the point at which the flare will start is level with the scribed line. Then the nuts are fully tightened, and the forming begins. Or at least that's the idea.

The only problem I can see with this is that the rule could do with another fixing point midway. If required, I will place a clamp at that point from the top. Yes, it will obstruct me to a degree, but it will be a simple job to remove and replace at a point which has already been formed while I make a form at that point too.

I shall hopefully use it in anger tomorrow, all being well, when it will prove whether it is indeed cheap n cheerful or just cheap n nasty.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Crumbs, @jonte
Here’s wishing Olive a speedy (if that’s possible for her recovery. I’ve got a couple of Tortoises, but they’re for the layout... and very apt, given its sluggish progress...

I think I understand your cunning plan. Maybe it’s me (and please forgive me if I’m being thick) but I can only see one brass tube in your last photo (mind you, I am looking at this on my iPhone, so maybe the issue is all mine).

Cheers

Jan

 

[jonte]

Crumbs, @jonte
Here’s wishing Olive a speedy (if that’s possible for her recovery. I’ve got a couple of Tortoises, but they’re for the layout... and very apt, given its sluggish progress...

I think I understand your cunning plan. Maybe it’s me (and please forgive me if I’m being thick) but I can only see one brass tube in your last photo (mind you, I am looking at this on my iPhone, so maybe the issue is all mine).

Cheers

Jan

Morning, Jan, and thanks for your kind interest.

Yep, Olive has perked up a little this morning after a restful night’s sleep, thank you, but has refused the anti-biotic laced banana- not so easy to kid, unlike his owner

Apologies for those awful photos I posted last night - although no different from the usual - so here’s anotherthat might prove a little clearer:



The ‘tray’ was built to the width of two brass tube diameters; just one - former only- would have rendered the stop ( a lump of 2x1 behind) an obstruction. At least this way, I can get my slenders beyond the edge being formed. I hope that makes sense, Jan.

Bestest

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Okay, here goes nothing, fellow Westerners, but just before I do, I would just like to record my thanks to @oldravendale who not only wrote personally to show his support and kind offer of help if needed, but also very generously shared with me some tricks of the trade that would help to bat off some of the modelling quagmires facing the newbie along the way.

Thank you, Brian.

First photo, which shows the steel rule clamp loosely in place together with brass tubes held in the tray by double sided sticky tape:



Hopefully, you can just make out the scribed line I made on the front tube (the former).

You will probably notice too the lumps of sticky tape ‘adrift’ on the face of the stop. Tape was placed on both seat and face of tray to hold the tubes, however, I didn’t reckon on how ‘sticky’ the tape was to prove. It was almost like a ferrous metal being drawn to a neo-thingy magnet: the tape gave up its bond with the wooden tray before it would release its grip on the tube. I had to resort to cutting it free with a Stanley blade.

Because of the method adopted for using the jig (please see post before last) I didn’t drop the tubes into the tray until the brass test piece was in the clamp, which obstructed my placing of the rearmost tube in the tray. Consequently, it stuck to the face of the tray before seated, so the only option was to remove the clamp and piece, and try and seat the tube properly. It was also a mistake placing tape under the former as it made it difficult to adjust. Never mind, all a learning curve.

The second photo hopefully explains what I meant when I wrote about lining up the point where the flare begins on the tender sides (represented by the scribed line on the brass test piece) with the scribed line on the former:



The third shows where the gap appears when the steel rule clamp is tightened:



and the next with the ‘clamped’ solution I mentioned previously:



The next two show the result from each end:



In conclusion, I’m happy that the flare looks more Western than previous attempts and, importantly, is even along its length, however, I’m not sure whether it looks too ‘shallow’ ?

I’m not sure why this would be as, if anything, the ‘radius’ of the former (at a tad under 5mm diameter) is under that of the prototype (a tad over 5mm), my radius being ideal to allow for the ‘spring in the metal.

That said, I’m still not happy with the properties of the brass I’m using as a test piece. Perhaps if it were ‘softer’ the bend would be more profound?

I think the time has arrived to free a part of the etch to see if it’s a little more succumbing- is that even a word?

As an aside, fellow Westerners, whilst I spend most of the year looking forward to doing a spot of modelling, when it eventually arrives thoughts turn to acquiring a ‘proper’ little ship like a Tideway or some compact workman like lugger, and exploring the upper reaches of say the Dart or Fal or those delightful creeks of the Helsford River, to be awoken by the sound of the rising water lapping on the hull or pitter-patter of the rain on the canvas of a makeshift tent slung across the boom....

I’ve always been a dreamer.

Now, back to the flare and what to do next.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Apologies to all, fellow Westerners, if these updates are all too frequent especially as they merely show one hiccup after the next with no apparent benefit to the build, but if you would permit me to share one final update today with you, I think I may have cracked it.

Here, after a second visit to the furnace, the test piece is returned to the jig, but the start of the bend (marked by the scribed line on the test piece) this time is placed an arbitrary distance just ‘above’ the scribed line of the former. The clamp is reintroduced as the piece began to move, probably because the darned brass is so resistant to bending - the actual piece will be far more cooperative and may use a small piece of tape underneath as belt n braces:



Looking better already, the metal needed a little persuasion from an old steel rule to go round.

The results:



I think I might just go with those.

Conclusion:

Jig cheap n cheerful, Brass cheap n nasty.

Jonte

 

[jonte]

Hello again, fellow Westerners.

I know I said in my previous post that that was it for today, but while everything was out, and as curiosity was killing the cat, I decided to test a part from the etch that won’t be used.

It’s the coal rail from the top which I scribed as I did with the test pieces on the rear before annealing

Then I popped it into the jig. Now, whether the beading etched onto the kit is making a difference I don’t know, but the flare wasn’t as pronounced as on the test piece. So back into the flame it went and also to see if it melted, which thankfully it didn’t although it got a little scorched.

Replaced it in the jig further above the line than last time and really pressed hard with the steel rule along the back.

Here are the results, and I must apologise for the lousy photos but I’m no photographer and these were the best of the bunch:



Is it me or are they still not pronounced enough? The danger is that if I go any tighter with the radius, it will be too acute and out of scale. It probably would be better if filed off the etched bead, but soldering a thin wire replacement would be a nightmare.

Think I’ll leave it for a few days.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte