A Proper Introduction

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Hello everybody!
My name is James - I usually go by Jim (but I've been called lots of other things too:eek:), and I'm currently spinning my wheels in Denver, Colorado. While searching for prototype data online, many pages into a google search I stumbled onto Mick's U.S. Model Dabblings thread. I've been lurking here on Western Thunder for probably several years since then. I had often thought of joining up, especially every time I wanted to see the full size pictures instead of the thumbnails :headbang:. There certainly is a lot to learn here. When the thread was revived recently, I finally got on with it and signed up.

Like many people, I have a hard time deciding what I will model. I used to be a big UP fan because my dad was and that's how I grew up. But I've evolved to the point that I'm interested in too many roads now. However, I have a couple of things figured out.

Unless I can get disciplined, I want to model two eras. The first is the transition era Central Vermont in upstate Vermont. Most likely something involving the Richford branch. Even though I grew up in the 70's and 80's, I do like steam. And for modeling purposes, I like small steam like the CV Consolidated's. I also like early Alco's and gp's. And F's. And I like that northern New England area. I love all the old brick and stone mill buildings and furniture factories and the like. Also, my dad grew up in upstate Vermont. I like the idea of modeling something that has a tie to his heritage. So that will be one point of focus. I want to capture in model form something like these photos show, but with steam as well:
CN002264_l.jpg

NESCan121-CV4550.jpg 4450resz.jpg

In contrast, I like modern railroading as well since I grew up with it. I like a lot of the modern equipment. I'm a big fan of the sd40-2. I like the sw1500's. So I would like to model something more recent. However, I would have a hard time deciding what prototype to model. I would prefer a western road. CP, CN, DRGW, BN, ATSF, and maybe a little SP. No truly modern post merger UP or BNSF. Pragmatically speaking, I will probably end up with a switching layout as true mainline modeling is hard to fit in O scale. Especially in my one bedroom apartment. I've got a current idea in mind of a terminal railway in general and maybe more specifically the BN branch to Golden. Between the Coors brewery and all the industries along that branch, I could utilize almost any modern motive power and rolling stock. Chemicals, beer wort, corn syrup, oil and fuel, grains, plastic pellets, silica, paper products, and coal are all loads heading to and from Golden. Not many flat car loads though! But hey, I can fake in a lumber distribution company to justify centerbeam flats. It actually sounds pretty specific so I guess I'm not that far off after all.

The point of all that is that sw1500's, gp38-2's, and sd40-2's will be put to work in the modern era. The Alco's, gp9's, and f's will be put to work in the transition era. I have another lonely idea floating around in my brain for a modular layout where one side of the oval will be transition era and the other will be modern. Each era will have the rest of its loop as staging either underneath the deck or behind the backdrop of the opposite half. This way a variety of trains could be presented on each half. The transition era would probably be mostly about the continuous running. The modern side would have a continuous run line representing the run from NW Denver to Golden. Spur tracks would then peel off of this line into various industries along the way.

I have it all figured out I guess. Except for the part involving time, money, and space. And a worthwhile sd40-2 model. So until I win the lotto, I will attempt smaller scale projects like the sw1500 conversion from an Atlas mp15dc.

Oh, and by the way, all of this is to be rendered in O scale. I have been in HO and N scale at various times, but for reasons I can't entirely pinpoint, decided to switch to O several years ago. I think at one point I erroneously determined that O scale would help me focus and limit random acquisitions as it was so big and you really could only use so much of it. Right?:oops:

So I'm here now. I look forward to participating, contributing as best I can, and learning scads of new things. To this point, I am an extremely accomplished armchair modeler and data collector :rolleyes:. I'd like to progress to the real thing, even if I have no layout to run on.

Cheers,
Jim
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
Jim,
welcome; I look forward to seeing your progress. Does your UP interest go as far as any knowledge about the coal towers at Laramie of Cheyene? we are after some detail information.

SimonT
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
I think at one point I erroneously determined that O scale would help me focus and limit random acquisitions as it was so big and you really could only use so much of it. Right?
Ha ha - yes, we all fall for that one, or the similar "I'll only need one loco and a few boxcars" line.... ;)
Welcome aboard "properly" anyway, your 'local' knowledge has already proved useful for those of us trying to railfan from 5,000 miles away. :thumbs:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Welcome, your finally here :thumbs:

I wish I was as disciplined as you have laid out, I get distracted too easily by other spheres of railway interest LOL.

I like UP too, especially their super power diesels, DD40AX, U50BB, U50C or turbines, I think a U50C would be a practical project in O at some point ;) maybe a snoot fast 40 as well :cool:

Enjoy your stay.
 
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Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Jim,
Sounds like some fun projects you've got in mind there. So you've now doubt realised there are a few here with interests in North American railways.
I'm looking forward to your future postings.
Steph
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
My dad had a UP50c back in the day, seem to remember it was a Japanese brass 7mm model, painted and weathered by Brian Caldicott. A name that some people may know quite well. A British guy living in Sutton Coldfield and used to win all the stateside competitions. Upset a few modellers over there apparently..

Nonetheless a beautiful model. He also had a Challenger from the same heritage, and that was something else..!

JB.
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jim,
welcome; I look forward to seeing your progress. Does your UP interest go as far as any knowledge about the coal towers at Laramie of Cheyene? we are after some detail information.

SimonT
Hello Simon and thank you for the welcome. My interest in the UP is long standing, but I'm afraid it has always been more focused toward motive power. I grew up in northwest Ohio, but as a child we traveled out west most summers and I got exposed to the UP early and fairly often. I've even seen DD40AX's running while still in everyday service. It's hard not to be impressed by all those giant things they tended to run around. I've even had the privilege in recent years of chasing around their maintained Northern, Challenger, and DD40AX. Usually two of the three at a time. It was quite a sight to see the Northern and Challenger doubleheaded. And as anybody knows that's been around live steam, there's a smell and sound and mass to these things that the uninitiated cannot appreciate.
IMG_0099.jpg up844_2008 018.jpg up844_2008 020.jpg


I guess my first question would be what detail information are you looking for? Everything, or just filling in some of the parts? Off the top of my head, my first two recommendations for data on the coaling towers are to contact the UP Historical Society and to try and contact a gent on the OGR forum going by the username "Scratchbuilder 1-48". The UPHS has a publication called the Streamliner which may have at some point featured an article on the coaling facilities. And if not that, they may be able to point you to other sources for the information you seek. And if I'm recalling correctly, Scratchbuilder 1-48, aka Bernie Winkler, built an incredible rendition of one of these towers. I believe he had it up for sale on ebay several months back. Now I could be wrong too, and it could be some other chap that built it, but it would be worth an email to him to see if he did indeed build it and if so where he got his plans from. Jordan is a member on the OGR forum and could get an email address from Bernie's profile page. He most likely has photos of his built project, which may be useful as well.

Let me know what information you are looking for specifically and whether you catch any leads from the sources listed above. I can always root around on the web and to a certain extent locally as well. I'm only about 90 minutes from Cheyenne and don't need to have my arm twisted too hard to be encouraged to drive up there for a day.

Jim
 
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Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Welcome, your finally here :thumbs:

I wish I was as disciplined as you have laid out, I get distracted too easily by other spheres of railway interest LOL.
I guess I barely feel very disciplined, but then when I lay it all out it does all sound pretty solid. But I certainly do get distracted pretty easily as well. All this sudden exposure to British prototypes is having a questionable effect on me right now.:eek: Not sure I would ever model it, as it would feel like starting over from scratch to learn about. Quite daunting. But I am quite intrigued by study of all of the differences between U.S. prototypes and UK prototypes. So many dissimilarities despite all being designed on much the same principles.

I like UP too, especially their super power diesels, DD40AX, U50BB, U50C or turbines, I think a U50C would be a practical project in O at some point ;) maybe a snoot fast 40 as well :cool:
Perhaps, ummmmm, N scale might be a more pragmatic choice?:eek:

I will be kitbashing up an sd40-2 or two, or maybe more like a dozen.:thumbs: I really like them. To that point about distractions, my problem is for which roads? Definitely some snoots, in ATSF for sure, but also CP, British Columbia Railway, and yes, probably UP. Regular noses in BN most likely as I like that livery. No CSX!:p

Now then, where's all the time gone too?
 
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Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jim,
Sounds like some fun projects you've got in mind there. So you've now doubt realised there are a few here with interests in North American railways.
I'm looking forward to your future postings.
Steph
Thank you Steph. And yes, I am discovering that there are quite a few U.S. outline modelers on the board. Which is good to know, as I was about to head for Google maps to discern in which part of the UK I might find Laramie.;) Turns out, I've already been there.

Truly, it is good to know as I think I was somewhat hesitant to join in here thinking that I might have a limited amount to contribute to the forum. But as there are others with U.S. interests, and especially noting that the underlying idea behind this forum's existence is the building and making and doing of things, I hope to fit in comfortably.

Regards,
Jim
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
... I think I was somewhat hesitant to join in here thinking that I might have a limited amount to contribute to the forum. But as there are others with U.S. interests, and especially noting that the underlying idea behind this forum's existence is the building and making and doing of things, I hope to fit in comfortably.
Good modelling has no boundaries - and as good modelling is dependent upon good sources and good techniques then there is no need to be hesitant in joining in... your contributions are most welcome, please continue.

regards, Graham
 

adrian

Flying Squad
But as there are others with U.S. interests, and especially noting that the underlying idea behind this forum's existence is the building and making and doing of things, I hope to fit in comfortably.
Whilst I may not be modelling in "U.S. interests" it doesn't mean that I don't have an affinity for it. I spent a significant time in my younger days at the Stapleford Miniature Railway. This is 10 1/4" gauge live steam railway with a couple of interesting locos. At the time I was there the NKP Berkshire was regular runner and I watched John Wilks single handedly build his NYC Niagara. So if you're building something we're interested!
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jordan, I should have added the Soo non-dynamic brake sd40-2 to my list. I rather fancy that scheme, but only early enough versions that the red from the nose curves into the cab rather than the later straight versions. And definitely no Candy Apple Red versions! Blech!:shit:

And oh yes, also some of the BN wreck rebuild B-units please.
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
James,
the model of Laramie Depot is being built by Peter Kirmond and some photographs of it have appeared in the Larkrail thread. It will represent Laramie and the Big Boys at the time of their last hurrah in 1957. Cracking photos, Pete has models of both the locos in your photographs; the turbine is a great looking model let down by dreadful mechanics. Open heart gearbox surgery has been carried out and the gear towers removed and replaced by a far simpler system.

As to the Coal Tower, we have Bob Odlands drawings and the photographs of the model. Pete has visited Laramie several times and been to the usual places to do research. There are copies of Steamliner, including the special on the depot. We are currently looking for information on the bucket carrier and the roof structure, items missing from Bob's drawing. We have a drawing that gives some information on the Cheyenne tower. Because of lack of space (the whole scene has to pack up into the space available in an estate car) the model isn't the full Laramie tower. Initially it was cross between Ogmore and Laramie -code name Ogamie. Recently the plan has changed and the tower will now take on a more Laramie appearance under the Larogamie code name. This will hopefully include a working bucket carrier........! So any information would be very gratefully received.

Here is a shot of the model before I pull it apart to add more etched confetti.
IMG_1433.jpg

Simon
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Simon, a couple of questions. By turbine are you referring to the rather enormous loco behind the Northern in the shots above? If so, that is actually the last operating DD40AX, UP6936. I don't believe there are any operable turbines remaining, although there are several around the country preserved in various museums. Now if you are just referencing some of the locos you have, then yes, some of the early brass ran horribly. Beautiful to look at (until pieces started falling off due to poor solder work), but akin to fire up a chainsaw while running.

Secondly, by Ogmore do you perhaps mean Ogden? When I search for Ogmore, not being initially familiar with the name, the most prevalent hits indicated a location in Wales of all places.

Now then, I certainly do not have the information at hand that you are seeking. I'm not surprised to find that you have checked out the Streamliner and UPHS avenues. I still might recommend contacting the gentleman from the OGR forum as I believe his model to be quite true and complete to the prototype. He must have had access to the data you seek. If it would help, I could send him an email on your behalf. Surely you could do this as well but perhaps the our schedules might sync up better both being stateside. Although of course emails can quite patiently sit through the night until read the next day. It's up to you. Let me know if you would like me to proceed.

I saw the pictures in the Larkrail thread. They strike a chord in me as I grew a fan of UP's big power. I've probably seen half of the still extant 4-8-8-4's at various times in my life. If it wasn't a pair DD40AX's live at the age of 10 or so, or ten or twelve sd40-2's consisted together, then it has been access to restored steam as an adult. I can certainly understand the allure of it all.

Regards,
Jim
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
James,
you have gone way beyond my knowledge of US locos with 'DD40AX'! Luckily Wiki explained that my UP loco identification is also poor first thing in the morning. Luckily I am only in charge of etch artwork for the coal tower. Ogden is obviously correct, now that I am properly awake.

The model bucket carrier presents a few problems at the moment as it won't work in the same manner as the Cheyenne drawings indicate. We are trying to solve this difference. Specifically the drawing has the following label "24" x 30" mall iron pivoted overlapping bucket carrier". There are also vertical rails to guide the chain. The Laramie coal and ash lift has similar dimension as Cheyenne and a similar layout, so it seems reasonable to presume that it works in the same way. Maybe the model builder didn't have access to the Cheyenne drawing and did what we all do in such situations and worked out what he thought was there. We've all been there.

Pete is creating a web site about his model and in due course a link will be posted.

Thanks
Simon
 

Peter K

New Member
Hi Jim,

Peter Kirmond here (builder of the Laramie Engine Terminal layout). Welcome to WT! Contact with Bernie Winkler would be useful as I'm pretty sure we spotted what must be his model on ebay some months ago. It had a photo showing the bucket system as he'd modelled it but it would be good to know if that is based on the prototype or just his 'best guess' and if he has (or knows where we can find) drawings. Maybe the best route would be for you to contact him and ask him to get in touch with me (kirmies@aol.com).

By way of background, my interest in Laramie and the UP dates back to 2010 when my daughter spent a year at Wyoming University at Laramie. We visited and I found that it had been a major hunting ground for the Big Boys - the rest, as they say, is history!. We are now great friends with the family whose daughter she roomed with - they live near Longmont and pretty much annual visits by us to them or them to us have happened ever since.

The layout website is at https://laramieengineterminal.wordpress.com/ It's very much 'under development' and this will be slow as my main focus is getting the layout 'developed' enough to go to it's first exhibition in October. It does have a track plan and some other bits and pieces and more will be added in due course.

Thanks
Peter
 
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