A West Midlands Works

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Scanlon, 29 August 2014.

  1. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter,
    That's the second time you have made my heart skip a beat:). I was quite happy to do the work in the cab but after discussing the tank issues with my customer he has decided not to change anything. Then you raised the bunker floor issue. I quickly cut out the etch and find it is almost a 100% fit. Very slight filing around the curves which butt up against the curved walls of the water scoop areas is all that will be needed.

    Seriously this is the kind of constructive observations that are oh so necessary in our hobby for all of us to get even better than we already are at what we do.

    I also built a JM Fowler as my second loco for Heyside
    42323 Weathered.JPG
    The David Andrews kit is streets ahead of Jim's old kit but there are probably 30 years worth of kit development between the two. My loco needs a new dome and probably a new chimney and hopefully I can twist someones arm to let me have replacement castings. The loco is a lovely runner and will be on 82G at Kidderminster Carriage Works on 6th and 7th April.
    Isambarduk, LarryG, Ian_C and 8 others like this.
  2. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,
    I'm glad to hear the bunker floor will go in easily. I only changed the fitting sequence on mine after reading that you had trouble getting the bunker floor to fit on your Stanier 2 6 4 build.

    I agree, constructive observations are always welcome. That is the beauty of these forums, where there are so many knowledgeable members willing to give you the heads up.

    The JM Fowler looks very nice. The one I build for my brother was the limousine cab version, long sold on now. The chimney and dome were better castings, but I don't recall if they came with the kit or were replacements . I do recall that the cast white metal cylinders needed drilling out to accept the piston rods,which was impossible for me to do. Luckily, a colleague in the engineering department where I worked did it for me in the workshop. The slidebars and crossheads were etchings so don't really look the part and as you say, the Andrew's kit is streets ahead.


    mickoo, 7mmMick, LarryG and 10 others like this.
  3. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    This is the first time I've seen a full cab door on a British loco. I know they were relatively common on US, Canadian and European locos.
    Duncan Chandler likes this.
  4. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter,
    Your JM loco looks smashing and without doubt I need a better dome! I see you modified the firebox to show the correct number of washout plugs, wish I'd done that now.

    When I first got the kit I was very disappointed at the lack of castings, so sat down with Richard Lambert of this parish and we put together a long list of necessary parts as well as replacement parts for the few in the kit. The majority came from Laurie Griffin and great use was made of his fittings for the Hughes Fowler Crab especially the slidebars, crossheads etc.. Unfortunately no one had a decent dome and so Clive Neal now departed to the big model railway in the sky attempted to make something of that in the box. The loco is very robust and I have a sneaking affection for it.

  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Dave,
    Some of the early Thomson L1 2 6 4s had a full door as well.

    As I recall, the valve slides were provided as etchings which were replaced with Chowbent castings I think. The etched slidebars were nightmare and you made the right decision to replace them with castings. The Stanier came with some extra LG castings and I will certainly use the cross head and slidebars which are better than those in the kit, particularly as they have the drop link cast on the cross head.

  6. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Back to the bunker and cab.
    Bunker 4 310319.JPG
    If you think the riveting tool has been put away forget it, loads more still to do. As previously said the bunker floor required minor easing of the etched curves which butt up against the curved walls of the water scoop areas. This was to be expected as it is near impossible to roll the walls to precisely the same curve as the etch, well it is for me! :rolleyes:To ensure the floor was right down on the supports I laid a piece of etch on the supports and marked the bunker sides and thankfully all was well. The floor was then detailed with the manhole cover and lifting links.

    In the cab the rear wall has been detailed, window bars made up and the window frames added. Before this was soldered in place the etches for the bases of the water pick-up domes and the tank vents were put in place, then using set squares the rear wall was soldered in.
    Bunker 7 310319.JPG
    Bunker 8 310319.JPG

    Next came the cab floor which goes in place before the doorways and doors can be installed. This installation is challenging and now wish I had put the 90⁰ angles on either side of the door aperture in place before installing the tank sides and bunker sides.
    Bunker 6 310319.JPG
    There is a half etch into which these angles fit and everything lined up perfectly. Door and handrails were then added. Two types of door are provided, the full height as shown and half height. Work on the bunker is now almost complete, beading and inner supports for the bunker have to be installed also the vents on the rear of the cab have to be made up and soldered in place. Getting there.:thumbs:
  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Nice work Roger.

    Looking at the curved bulkheads in the bunker, I'm guessing the full width "step" in the JM bunker was a compromise. The detail in the bunker looks nice and was absent from the JM kit.

  8. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    You guys could do with swapping chassis. The cab door body should have bevel rim wheels, while the early cab version should have 'Fowler' wheels. Pony and bogie wheels got swapped around certainly, but driving wheels rarely. That said, 42417's leading divers were Fowler type (the others were 'Stanier' bevel rim). Kits have come a long way over the years, but the old ones remain good scratch builder aids I expect.
  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry,
    The wheels on mine were as specified in the instruction and I guess were the closest available at the time. The bevel wheels came later to the Slaters range I believe.
  10. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Progress with Crediton has been rather slow of late but the model is now almost ready to go away to Paul Moore for painting. Final detailing of the frames has been completed and touching up of the items fitted will be done shortly.

    The biggest task left since my last post was to build the valve gear. Attention to detail is essential and tolerances are very tight in the area of the swing link for the piston valve and the radius rod assembly.
    Swing link 140419.jpg
    I slightly reduced the height of the outer slidebar support to give a little more clearance for the links to move freely. With this out of the way the remainder of the valve gear was quickly assembled and trial tested on DC. Everything appeared fine so a Zimo chip and stay-alive were fitted and trials on DCC commenced revealing a trouble free loco or so I thought.

    A trial run on a friends layout appeared to identified some issues with the bogie. A check with other rebuilds in my collection showed the new one to be near identical to the others, just a guard iron needed to be adjusted. A retrial on Heyside was quickly arranged and the loco ran perfectly at a variety of speeds and in both directions, phew.:thumbs:

    With this worry out of the way final detailing has proceeded and now only the speedometer and crank have to be fitted plus the drawbars and couplings. The boiler backhead has been built up, just a few pipes from the pressure gauges to be added plus drains from the gauge frames.
    Backhead 2 180419.JPG
    a very satisfying piece of work for a fine looking locomotive.
    Loco 12 180419.JPG

    Loco 13 180419.JPG
    Work will now concentrate on the Fowler 2-6-4t to be followed by an 8F, a Gladiator kit but at least five more Bulleid pacifics are waiting in the wings!
  11. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,

    great work as usual, but that is one heck of a list of future work:eek::eek::eek: what happens after the August Bank holiday?

    kind regards

  12. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Mike,
    I have a rest but importantly you have not stated which year the bank holiday will be in! Given the number of locos I have to build I'll be kept busy for the next 5 years.
    Happy Easter to you and all WTers.
  13. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,
    How are things going with the big Fowler tank? I'm getting close to the finish with the big Stanier and was wondering how yours is doing.
  14. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    It has been some time since I last posted. My little E2 0-6-2t has been away for painting by Ian Rathbone who has done an excellent job.
    Paint 1 090519.JPG
    The little machine had a run on 82G on Sunday and performed faultlessly.:D
    070719 (1).JPG

    The other major build on my workbench has been the Fowler 2-6-4t. In the last post only the tanks and bunker has been completed. Construction of the boiler was straightforward or so I thought. The boiler, smokebox and firebox in "rough" form was tried in the running plate and I found the whole assembly would not fit onto the frames. Thorough investigation revealed I had put two spacers upside down in the frames and the motion bracket was about 3mm too high! I was mortified by a problem of my own making which fortunately was quickly rectified.:rant:

    Having resolved the frames issue installing the boiler into the running plate appeared to be a straightforward job but just about everything conspired against me. With the boiler tacked in place on the running plate the front bufferbeam was 1.5mm higher than at the bunker, what was wrong now? Suffice to say everything was stripped down including the frames and a start made on taking measurements. There was no issue with the frames being level so the running plate etc. was put back in place and further measurements taken and everything was level. With the cylinders and motion bracket reinstalled on the frames they would not fit snugly. It transpired the underside of the sandbox fitter castings were interfering with the fixing points for the motion bracket. With the castings ground down everything dropped into place and this photo shows the running plate firmly bolted down to the frames prior to the boiler going in place. Measurements were taken all along the tank tops and everything was level.:)
    Runnnig plate 3 240419.JPG
    Now all was well the boiler was reinstated and detailing commenced. This was followed by construction and fitting of the valve gear. Unlike the Stanier variant when the expansion link had to be slightly reduced in size everything for the valve gear was fine and thoroughly tested.
    Loco 15 200619.JPG
    Loco 17 220619.JPG
    The loco has now been returned to its owner suitably cleaned, is performing well and will shortly go away for painting.

    My attention has now turned to building a Gladiator 8F. It will be 48369 which in later life had a welded tender and remained in service until June 1968. Construction of the tender has been straightforward and was quickly completed.
    Tender 2 060519.JPG
    Progress on the engine has however been rather slower. We all have our own way of building a loco and I found following written instructions somewhat frustrating especially as there were no diagrams. I enquired of David Hill if there were any and as it happens Bob Alderman has just produced a photographic record of his build of this kit including helpful hints to aid construction.:thumbs: David provided a CD with significantly improved instructions wherein each section of the build is described with part numbers supported with photographs. My build has now reached the stage where the frames are 95% complete, just sandboxes and pipes plus exhaust injector to fit.
    Frames 3 090719.JPG
    The cylinders are almost fully detailed as is the motion bracket and with the slidebars soldered in place the whole assembly has become very solid.
    Cylinders 1 090719.JPG
    With the cylinders and slidebars in place greater clearance will be required between the leading crankpin bushes and the rear of the lower slidebars, a job for tomorrow.
    Frames 4 090719.JPG
    Hopefully a start can be made later this week on building the running plate and cab.
    markjj, Deano747, dibateg and 15 others like this.
  15. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad


    I think that, given the origin of the E2, your achievement in producing such a lovely loco is remarkable.

  16. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer


    Great workmanship there as ever. I thought that your 8F might have been one of the Southern produced ones though:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Looking forward to the next postings.


  17. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Richard,
    Sows ears and silk purses come to mind!!!! The trouble is that some of the stitches in the purse are all too obvious to me but thanks. It is a surprisingly large loco and I have fond memories of seeing her and 32104 shunting in Norwood yard in the 1950's.

    Hi Mike
    I was tempted to build another Brighton 8F but wanted a Horwich machine. Her final shed was Newton Heath, very appropriate for Heyside.

    Ressaldar likes this.
  18. paulc

    paulc Western Thunderer

    Curiosity has got the better of me Roger , what is the red tape for on the rod ? Is it as simple as indicating the right side rod .
    Fantastic build .
    Cheers Paul
    Last edited by a moderator: 10 July 2019
  19. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,
    Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations with the big Fowler tank. I'm glad that it worked out in the end and the model looks very impressive. By the way, how have you fixed the roof on?

    Looking forward to seeing how the 8F progresses.

  20. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter,
    As you will have gathered most of the problems were of my own making but it is a lovely machine and the owner says it is sailing around his layout pulling a rake of non corridor coaches.

    I didn't think to take a photo of the inside of the roof. Once it was formed up, I put it in position and with a pencil marked the correct position of the roof overhang fore and aft. I then made up two L shaped tags and soldered them on the underside of the roof centreline. It took a while to get them right and they are slightly sprung to create a mild interference fit. I then made up a further 4 L shaped clips and put them at each corner about 2mm in from the corners. Once again a little bit of trial and error was required to get them correctly in place.

    More on the 8F to follow.

    Isambarduk and P A D like this.