Another MOK 8F !

[Lancastrian]

This build has been on the cards for quite some time, originally in Finescale, but after joining the S7 Group I contacted Dave Sharp and ordered the S7 frame spacer etch.
The tender had already been built and it was reasonably easy to swap the wheels out, although the outer frames are very close to the wheel centres !
In the meantime, after researching a suitable prototype, I spoke with Dave again about the option of the latter style spring droplinks, and he kindly furnished me with a set of axlebox spring components from the Ivatt kit, which entailed some swapping of bits and butchering.

by Ian Allen, on Flickr
Original axlebox and spring with Ivatt style droplinks

by Ian Allen, on Flickr
One side completed

Today I spent the afternoon turning up a new water tank filler, as the casting in the kit was a bit oval...
by Ian Allen, on Flickr

by Ian Allen, on Flickr

At the moment, the lid is soldered to the body, but I may plumb to have it hinged so it can be left open.

Ian

 

[mickoo]

Normally Slaters wheel hubs are too thick so whizz them up in the lathe and take what ever you need off the hub to give yourself some clearance, you'll then need to deepen the chamfer for the screw correspondingly and perhaps take a bit off the end of the screw. You'll also need to shorten the square section on the axle by the same amount as well.

I've got a coned bit after someones advice on here that matches the Slaters chamfer perfectly but for the life of me cannot remember any details, think it's a 1:6 taper or something.

MD

 

[adrian]

In the meantime, after researching a suitable prototype, I spoke with Dave again about the option of the latter style spring droplinks, and he kindly furnished me with a set of axlebox spring components from the Ivatt kit, which entailed some swapping of bits and butchering.

Damn - that's another variation I need to add to my build list!

 

[Lancastrian]

Mickoo....thanks, I'll give that a go.

Adrian....As built, only the Horwich built engines had this style of brake hanger, but if tenders were swapped around they could well appear on other 8F's. All Black 5's after from 1944 onwards (Loco 4846, Tender 10471) had this style too.

Ian

 

[adrian]

Adrian....As built, only the Horwich built engines had this style of brake hanger, but if tenders were swapped around they could well appear on other 8F's. All Black 5's after from 1944 onwards (Loco 4846, Tender 10471) had this style too.

Thanks for the information - my chosen loco (48388) was Horwich built and does appear to show this style of hanger so I appreciate the heads up on this.

If you look at Transport Treasury latest additions list New Additions this month the first 8 photos show my current research. The 3F I'm currently building, 5 of the 8F and the V2.

New Additions this month | ES5738

New Additions this month | ES5739

 

[Lancastrian]

Adrian,

You'll need tender coal space water pipes as well then ;-)

Ian

 

[adrian]

Adrian....As built, only the Horwich built engines had this style of brake hanger, but if tenders were swapped around they could well appear on other 8F's. All Black 5's after from 1944 onwards (Loco 4846, Tender 10471) had this style too.

Are you sure it was only Horwich built engines? The reason I ask is that on examining the variations further I note that the photos I have
http://thetransporttreasury.zenfolio.com/p816079573/h9935C3BE#h9935c3be
appear to show a tender with disc wheels which I thought was an LNER variation and this style of brake hanger. The books say 48388 was a Horwich loco so I'm presuming that it got a tender change at some point in it's life. I just need to decide what to do with the spoked wheel castings I have already bought. Find an earlier dated photo with spoked wheels or buy another set of disc wheels and build to this photo?

You'll need tender coal space water pipes as well then ;-)

Do mean the spray bars to damp down the dust or something else?

 

[Lancastrian]

As with locomotives, tenders were not immune to wheel swaps, so it is entirely possible that the tender received wheels from one built by the LNER. Some tenders were even noted running with both types of wheel !

Yes, one each side along the top, they were fed from the exhaust injector delivery pipe from a valve adjacent to that for the slaking pipe.

I plan on viewing the locomotive history cards for the Horwich 8F's on a visit to the NRM sometime, so should hopefully acquire some tender information too.

Ian

 

[Lancastrian]

Adrian,

For the Horwich series of engines:

No central vertical cab side rivets
Flush rivet footsteps
Built up balance weights
Class J (Davis & Metcalfe) exhaust steam injector
Large access panels in cylinder clothing
Combined ejector
High steam lance cock position
Self-cleaning smokebox
Fabricated steel valve spindle crosshead guides
Straight reversing rod
Additional frame stretcher
Link and pin frame stays
Two piece fall plate
Lightening holes in rear platform support
Fixed forward cabside window
Flat window beading
Snap head buffer beam rivets
Steam sanding
Short tender spring links
Tender coal space watering pipes

I have been speaking with Dave Sharp about the possibility of an additional etch to take into account some of the detail differences with the Horwich batch.

Ian

 

[adrian]

For the Horwich series of engines:

No central vertical cab side rivets
...
High steam lance cock position

Thanks very much for those details - some new to me like the cab side rivets, or lack of them. So that is appreciated.

Like anything with loco building I will have to work from a specific photo. When built I had spotted the high steam lance position.
As in this 1958 photo from 48388 near Bromsgrove



but at some point it has been modified and moved lower. As in this 1965 photo
New Additions this month | ES5737

This also appears to show a steel plate patch over the top of the smokebox. Perhaps all done at the same time.

 

[daifly]

Surely it's a different boiler in the two photos - unless they moved all of the rivets too!
Dave

 

[mickoo]

Thanks very much for those details - some new to me like the cab side rivets, or lack of them. So that is appreciated.

Like anything with loco building I will have to work from a specific photo. When built I had spotted the high steam lance position.
As in this 1958 photo from 48388 near Bromsgrove

View attachment 80384

but at some point it has been modified and moved lower. As in this 1965 photo
New Additions this month | ES5737
View attachment 80386
This also appears to show a steel plate patch over the top of the smokebox. Perhaps all done at the same time.

Wow, didn't know Transport Treasury did digital copies, that's a rabbit hole I didn't expect to fall down this morning

Reasonably priced too though can't see where it details the download image size (pixels)

MD

 

[adrian]

Surely it's a different boiler in the two photos - unless they moved all of the rivets too!

I'm not sure it is a different boiler. I don't think they've moved any rivets but just added a lot more! In the Wild Swan books it talks about some locos having extra liner plates fitted in smokebox. The description matches the extra rivets and ties up with a photo in the pictorial supplement.

Reasonably priced too though can't see where it details the download image size (pixels)

The photo I linked to was one I requested. If it helps this is the info on the image supplied.

 

[Lancastrian]

Also of interest is the additional line of rivets midway along the side of the smokebox. The steel plate has flat head rivets rather than snap head, so it may well have been an interim repair.

Ian

 

[mickoo]

I'm not sure it is a different boiler. I don't think they've moved any rivets but just added a lot more! In the Wild Swan books it talks about some locos having extra liner plates fitted in smokebox. The description matches the extra rivets and ties up with a photo in the pictorial supplement.

The photo I linked to was one I requested. If it helps this is the info on the image supplied.
View attachment 80393
View attachment 80394

Perfect, time to flex the plastic

 

[daifly]

I'm not sure it is a different boiler. I don't think they've moved any rivets but just added a lot more!

You may well be right but there are a number of changes which made me suspect the change. For example, the smokebox door latch on the left is a slightly different size and rivet pattern. The saddle appears to have a different bolting pattern. I may well be reading too much into a couple of grainy enlargements (it won’t be the first time) but I also would not have expected a boiler needing that much work to necessarily be reunited with the same chassis.
Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

On a lighter note this is the new joint Bridgehouse Brewery / Timothy Taylors 8F at Oxenhope Shed (taken at the KWVR Beer, Music and Steam Festival today).



As for the rivets - I gave up counting after a few of these.... Picture number 42 from 101 uses for a Great Western Locomotive - Beer glass stand.

 

[Lancastrian]

You may well be right but there are a number of changes which made me suspect the change. For example, the smokebox door latch on the left is a slightly different size and rivet pattern. The saddle appears to have a different bolting pattern. I may well be reading too much into a couple of grainy enlargements (it won’t be the first time) but I also would not have expected a boiler needing that much work to necessarily be reunited with the same chassis.
Dave

48549 displays very similar rivet detail to 48388.

Ian

 

[Lancastrian]

On a lighter note this is the new joint Bridgehouse Brewery / Timothy Taylors 8F at Oxenhope Shed (taken at the KWVR Beer, Music and Steam Festival today).

View attachment 80468

As for the rivets - I gave up counting after a few of these.... Picture number 42 from 101 uses for a Great Western Locomotive - Beer glass stand.

View attachment 80469

Lol, excellent Dave

Ian

 

[oldravendale]

That's a slight improvement on this:



48431. Barry. 18 November 1967. My copyright.

Brian