7mm Basingstoke MRS - a new 7mm layout

[Dog Star]

Members of the Basingstoke MRS have been talking about a 7mm layout for more than a year now and aspects of that subject have been aired on WT and other "fora" in that time, for example:- options for joint line stations... thoughts on baseboard construction... legs....

So here is the starting point, or would be if the drawing would upload.

Cynric - I asked if sketchup files could be used and I read that .skp files had been enabled. When I attempt to upload I get a message "An error has occured"...

regards, Graham

Subsequent to this first post, the file was sent to Cynric who has created a way in which the file can be shared with WTers. Thank you Cynric.

 

[28ten]

Members of the Basingstoke MRS have been talking about a 7mm layout for more than a year now and aspects of that subject have been aired on WT and other "fora" in that time, for example:- options for joint line stations... thoughts on baseboard construction... legs....

So here is the starting point, or would be if the drawing would upload.

Cynric - I asked if sketchup files could be used and I read that .skp files had been enabled. When I attempt to upload I get a message "An error has occured"...

Please advise what to do to upload a 9MB Sketchup file.

regards, Graham

Email the file to me Ill see what I can do

 

[28ten]

Try this
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7067700_4892463_690879

 

[Dog Star]

So, with thanks to Cynric, I can continue from post no. #1.

The Basingstoke MRS - or as this forum software put in the title, Basingstoke Missus (Mrs....) - has commenced construction of a 7mm layout based upon features that members felt were desirable.... so we have an inner city terminus which is approached on a viaduct, a low-level goods yard and a high-level unused viaduct. The low-level goods yard has a canal basin, probably derelict, and a wagon hoist to the terminus level. Overall, shades of Hockley Basin, Moor Street and a monument to the vindictive nature of Mr.Moon. But then again maybe Fenbchurch Street with a small dose of Bishopsgate.

One of our Club members has drawn the layout, including station buildings, canal basin, goods shed and wagon hoist, in Sketchup and I attempted to load this to the Forum so that all can see what is intended. Cynric has put the drawing in a location from where the Sketchup file can be downloaded. Opening the file shall provide a 3D-virtual model which can be rotated and "explored".

Comments and suggestions welcome.

 

[28ten]

I shall download sketchup again and have a look tomorrow
Here is the free download link http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/download/

 

[28ten]

I just had a look, and I like the concept, but im not sure about the station building location. I can see why it like that. its a bit like Uxbridge high st - a through line that ended up as a terminus. Overall it is the sort of thing I would have come up with, so it cant be bad

 

[Wagonman]

So, with thanks to Cynric, I can continue from post no. #1.

The Basingstoke MRS - or as this forum software put in the title, Basingstoke Missus (Mrs....) - has commenced construction of a 7mm layout based upon features that members felt were desirable.... so we have an inner city terminus which is approached on a viaduct, a low-level goods yard and a high-level unused viaduct. The low-level goods yard has a canal basin, probably derelict, and a wagon hoist to the terminus level. Overall, shades of Hockley Basin, Moor Street and a monument to the vindictive nature of Mr.Moon. But then again maybe Fenbchurch Street with a small dose of Bishopsgate.

One of our Club members has drawn the layout, including station buildings, canal basin, goods shed and wagon hoist, in Sketchup and I attempted to load this to the Forum so that all can see what is intended. Cynric has put the drawing in a location from where the Sketchup file can be downloaded. Opening the file shall provide a 3D-virtual model which can be rotated and "explored".

Comments and suggestions welcome.

There doesn't seem to be any connection to the lower level of the wagon hoist... or am I missing something?

 

[Dog Star]

There doesn't seem to be any connection to the lower level of the wagon hoist... or am I missing something?

You are not missing anything.... the 3D model was created to illustrate how the ideas of the various members could be combined into a cohesive whole and when the computer model was presented at our Club Open Day in September last year the "showing" was supported by screen shots from walking around the buildings plus prototype photographs which defined and refined different aspects of the intended model.

In the case of the wagon hoist the prototype is Moor Street where there were three examples. The Moor Street examples were aligned, roughly, parallel to the line of the viaduct and to the goods lines underneath the viaduct. As far as I know the wagons were worked on/off the lower level sidings by capstans - the lower level goods sidings which were accesed from the hoists were within the viaduct and the bottom part of the lift was not visible to the genreal public. As regards the model, at the time of the Open Day we expected to connect the lower level of the hoist to the yard lines by a traverser table and that table was not included in the drawing.

Things change.... we had another "showing" at our 2012 Exhibition and similar questions were asked... with the suggestion that having the hoist at an angle to the passenger lines would enable the lower level of the hoist to connect to the lower yard by a turnout. Now this seemed a good idea because [a] a traverser is to be included at the end of the platform roads (a la Moor Street) and so a traverser in the goods yard added nothing new, and the ability to transfer wagons on/off the hoist by engine in the lower yard introduced complexity into how the yard would be worked (the hoist exit being towards the canal rather than towards the un-used viaduct).

For those who have looked at the Sketchup file, we used the 3D-shape of each baseboard to produce a 3D-model of the interior structure of each baseboard... in effect, we have built a prototype of the baseboards to determine the placing of the supports relative to turnouts and to the canal basin. Now that a model of the baseboard sructure is available we have thekn that model to pieces and used all of the pieces to plan a cutting diagram for each of twelve sheets of 6.5mm birch ply (delivered FoC from Wickes). Just do not forget to make an allowance for the kerf of the power saw.

regards, Graham

 

[28ten]

Or if you wanted to use foam core boards, export a dxf and have the foam and ply cut to size

 

[Dog Star]

I just had a look, and I like the concept, but im not sure about the station building location. I can see why it like that. ...

In the first attempt the station offices were across the end of the platforms, just like Moor Street. The result appeared to be an after-thought and actually a bad thing for viewing the trains. We have created a design for a layout which can be viewed from three side and buildings across the platform end blocked views through and along the platforms... not forgetting seeing the engine release traverser in operation. When the buildings were placed on the side, along one platform, the views of passenged trains were enhanced and a new view created, that of carriages and passengers glimpsed between the station building and the adjacent Goods Shed ("explore" the 3D-model and see what I mean).

Then again, maybe this is one of those stations which bucked the trend in that life started as a terminus and may change to become a through station. Stars and six lake carriages are out of place in regard to the current model. However, just suppose that the Club extends the layout at some time. Inserting sections between the unused viaduct
and the fiddle yard ought to be easy with another warehouse or two and adding a further viaduct section at the other end (where the prototype disappears off-scene onto a fiddle yard through a tunnel) opens opportunities for Big Blue engines at the head of teak carriages steel flats.
All welcome.

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

Or if you wanted to use foam core boards, export a dxf and have the foam and ply cut to size

This looks interesting.... where might you use the foam board within the model? Who could make use of a .dxf file?

thank you, Graham

 

[28ten]

In the first attempt the station offices were across the end of the platforms, just like Moor Street. The result appeared to be an after-thought and actually a bad thing for viewing the trains. We have created a design for a layout which can be viewed from three side and buildings across the platform end blocked views through and along the platforms... not forgetting seeing the engine release traverser in operation. When the buildings were placed on the side, along one platform, the views of passenged trains were enhanced and a new view created, that of carriages and passengers glimpsed between the station building and the adjacent Goods Shed ("explore" the 3D-model and see what I mean).

Then again, maybe this is one of those stations which bucked the trend in that life started as a terminus and may change to become a through station. Stars and six lake carriages are out of place in regard to the current model. However, just suppose that the Club extends the layout at some time. Inserting sections between the unused viaduct
and the fiddle yard ought to be easy with another warehouse or two and adding a further viaduct section at the other end (where the prototype disappears off-scene onto a fiddle yard through a tunnel) opens opportunities for Big Blue engines at the head of teak carriages steel flats.
All welcome.

regards, Graham

I like the idea of the end view under the canopy, the building just looks a little cramped.
Foam and ply sandwich boards are a lot lighter, I think Mike used them on a club layout, but if you wanted interlocking boards then cnc is an option. I did have a list of places that will cut the insulation from 8x4 sheets.

 

[Dog Star]

I like the idea of the end view under the canopy, the building just looks a little cramped.

Please feel free to offer suggestions... or make the changes yourself (in a new drawing).

Foam and ply sandwich boards are a lot lighter.

Very true... 6.5mm birch ply is quite heavy and that is a penalty for the rigidty and stability of the material. A mixture of ply for structural integrity and foam for lightness is the way to go. As yet the expertise / wisdom for designing such baseboards does not seem to be of sufficient depth or width... and the most public of such models has suffered from sinking of the foam such that T-beams (under the track beds) features in conversations with the owner. I shall be very interested in your ideas in this area of baseboard construction.

If you wanted interlocking boards then cnc is an option.

If you are referring to the "egg-box" style of construction then that is what we have designed...and cut using a power saw and a router in the manufacture of parts. How would you use a CNC in such construction?

I did have a list of places that will cut the insulation from 8x4 sheets.

Now that is always something worth having for such facilities pop-up and fade away with no warning.... or change what they stock at a whim (or dependent upoin what the salesman wants to shift this month). We are lucky in that there is a place nearby, adjacent to Marwell Zoo, which will cut pieces from a block and to whatever depth is required.

The lorry which delivered the ply to us had some very useful extruded polystryrene foam on board... Kappa board I recollect. Now not all of Wickes stores stock all of Wickes products... the ply came from Guildford and that store does stock the Kappa board - the Basingstoke store stocks neither (although we ordered the ply in Basingstoke).

regards, Graham

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Graham,

just starting to catch up with what's been happening on WT for the last few weeks whilst the wife and I have been engaged elsewhere.

Cynric is correct in that we at Wirral OGG have used 75 thick Styrofoam 'Floormate' as the core of our baseboards - very good it is too. We obtained it through the local depot Warren Insulation and back in April 2010, the price was £11.50 a sheet (2.500x600) + VAT and sold in packs of five sheets - we need 15 sheets.



Hope that this is of help and not muddying the waters.

cheers

Mike

 

[Dog Star]

... we at Wirral OGG have used 75 thick Styrofoam 'Floormate' as the core of our baseboards - very good it is too.

Thank you Mike and your post is not making the waters any more muddy than they are today... the rain here is washing the fields into the roads.

What is the glue that is being used to boind the foam into the ply frame?

What thickness ply has been used for the ends? and for the sides?

I cannot decide... there appears to be ply on either the top surfsce or on the bottom surface of the foam.... what is the answer?

thank you and regards, Graham

 

[Wagonman]

You are not missing anything.... the 3D model was created to illustrate how the ideas of the various members could be combined into a cohesive whole and when the computer model was presented at our Club Open Day in September last year the "showing" was supported by screen shots from walking around the buildings plus prototype photographs which defined and refined different aspects of the intended model.

In the case of the wagon hoist the prototype is Moor Street where there were three examples. The Moor Street examples were aligned, roughly, parallel to the line of the viaduct and to the goods lines underneath the viaduct. As far as I know the wagons were worked on/off the lower level sidings by capstans - the lower level goods sidings which were accesed from the hoists were within the viaduct and the bottom part of the lift was not visible to the genreal public. As regards the model, at the time of the Open Day we expected to connect the lower level of the hoist to the yard lines by a traverser table and that table was not included in the drawing.

Things change.... we had another "showing" at our 2012 Exhibition and similar questions were asked... with the suggestion that having the hoist at an angle to the passenger lines would enable the lower level of the hoist to connect to the lower yard by a turnout. Now this seemed a good idea because [a] a traverser is to be included at the end of the platform roads (a la Moor Street) and so a traverser in the goods yard added nothing new, and the ability to transfer wagons on/off the hoist by engine in the lower yard introduced complexity into how the yard would be worked (the hoist exit being towards the canal rather than towards the un-used viaduct).

For those who have looked at the Sketchup file, we used the 3D-shape of each baseboard to produce a 3D-model of the interior structure of each baseboard... in effect, we have built a prototype of the baseboards to determine the placing of the supports relative to turnouts and to the canal basin. Now that a model of the baseboard sructure is available we have thekn that model to pieces and used all of the pieces to plan a cutting diagram for each of twelve sheets of 6.5mm birch ply (delivered FoC from Wickes). Just do not forget to make an allowance for the kerf of the power saw.

regards, Graham

Ah. Thanks for that Graham. I agree that loco access to the base of the wagon hoist would give greater operational interest. There were some amazing hoists scattered around the East End of London – as I'm sure you're aware – many of them laid out for loco (or more likely horse) working.

The hoist will be functional of course...? And when Peter Hunt has perfected his animatronic 7mm scale horse....

Dream on

 

[Dog Star]

I agree that loco access to the base of the wagon hoist would give greater operational interest. There were some amazing hoists scattered around the East End of London

And not just the East End for there was a hoist in the LNWR Goods depot at Broad Street.

There were some amazing hoists scattered around the East End of London – as I'm sure you're aware.

As a contributor to Basilica Fields I am aware of the great number of wagon hoists which frequent the railways in the east of London and maybe Adrian (Buckjumper) can be persuaded to post a photograph or three of those in the Spitalfields area.

The hoist will be functional of course...? And when Peter Hunt has perfected his animatronic 7mm scale horse....

We intend that the hoist of the Basingstoke layout is operational... and that wish is another reason why we moved away from a hoist where the wagons were moved by capstan.

Your question might be better posed to Adrian (Buckjumper) for I shall be very surprised if a wagon hoist does not feature in one of the segments of Basilica Fields. As for the working horse that is easy... the bigger problems are the unpredictable nature of the exhaust from the GER 1GG class of motive power (where to place the man with the shovel and wheelbarrow) and the development delays in the smell decoder.

regards, Graham

 

[daifly]

the exhaust from the GER 1GG class of motive power

Is that one of those 2-0-2 hayburners?

 

[Dog Star]

Is that one of those 2-0-2 hayburners?

Sorry, the Basilica Fields beast is a member of the '1-1-1-1' shunter family, an original development where each corner has independent motion. The '2-0-2' sub-class survives today solely in the shape of the Lion in Forbury Gardens.... where the creator managed to get synchonism in the footprint such that the beast falls sideways at every step (and the story in the locals is that he committed suicide when he realised what was wrong with the statue).

Let us hope that Adrian can offer a photograph of the 1GG which was allocated to Weeping Angels Yard... or the close cousin which frequents West Mersea.

 

[Ressaldar]

Thank you Mike and your post is not making the waters any more muddy than they are today... the rain here is washing the fields into the roads.
Hi Graham,

sorry for the delay in responding, but the Northern contingent of the family came over for lunch and the chat was greater than usual.
What is the glue that is being used to boind the foam into the ply frame?

Any non-solvent 'No Nails' type can be used
What thickness ply has been used for the ends? and for the sides?

9mm birch ply for the sides and 18mm birch ply for the ends

I cannot decide... there appears to be ply on either the top surfsce or on the bottom surface of the foam.... what is the answer?

Those pieces of ply were just used as formers for squaring up during the construction, we later glued some blocking pieces against the sides and 50mmx6mm stretchers across the board acting as supports

thank you and regards, Graham

Herewith the drawing that was used - but the constructed board just has the cork PVA glued directly onto the Styrofoam



The Blue hatching around the perimeter is the 20mmx20mm bead that was replaced by the blocking pieces and the stretchers

Having spent the best part of the last two weeks in the Basingstoke/Aldershot area,I know just what you mean by the weather.

cheers

Mike