Prototype BR Mk.1 - was RF 302, now Griddle 1105

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
The carriage is in one of the service sets on the Mid-Hants Railway. The Vintage Carriage Trust Register considers this carriage as being of historical importance and these photos show why... to enter this coach is like stepping into another world with unusual design details in all directions.

The carriage has two saloons separated by a catering area and so the photos are separated into separate sections of this post. Facing the corridor side of the carriage, the first set of photos are of the Buffet Saloon to the right hand end (see later diagram posted by Heather (@Heather Kay).

The seating on one side of this saloon is along the wall and arranged in two / three seat groupings which are separated by a trimmed divider. Note that there is no seat base between the table and the bodyside.
griddle-a-a.jpg

One of the seating groups - the table is narrower at the far side to provide room for passengers.
griddle-a-b.jpg

The seating on the other side of the saloon appears to be "normal" although that cannot be said about the table which has six sides. The seat adjacent to the gangway lifts to ease access to the far seat.
griddle-a-c.jpg

The tip-up seat in the down position...
griddle-a-d.jpg

... and raised. Neither the arm-rest nor the far seat are moveable.
griddle-a-e.jpg


The next set of photos are of the Bar Saloon to the left hand end.
griddle-b-a.jpg

griddle-b-b.jpg

griddle-b-c.jpg

griddle-b-d.jpg

An alcove for flowers in a vase possibly?
griddle-b-e.jpg

Finally, a couple of details... the corridor between the saloons (note the curve on either side of the partition)...
griddle-c-a.jpg

and the moquette for the seats (which I cannot find on the Bluebell Railway web-site pages on carriage moquettes).
griddle-moquette.jpg
 
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Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
Out of collection of Bus Pattern's by the look Graham - definitely not the original. Now I could talk about these Griddle Cars till the cows come home...

Just one small anecdote for just now though... When they were designed at Eastleigh (the second batch of RG's were conversions of early RF's rather than the new builds of the 1st batch), the main draughtsman Ray Chorley had got onto the design for the lino (they had lino tiles originally not the floorcovering it presently has) and he hadn't a clue what pattern they were use from a mix of tile colours so he got one of the girls from the office to give him a hand - by throwing the tiles down randomly they come up with a rather "abstract" pattern to say the least. And so it was!

p.s. Graham - that sandwich in the photo isn't anywhere near accurate enough with no curls...
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
If you're up for it, a general sketch of the floor plan/seating/table arrangement might be of use.
I was so blown away by the arrangement of the saloons I did not make a note of the things which modellers want to know... floor covering, curtain material, shape of missing ashtrays. Heather (@Heather Kay) could spend a day just doing a Snaptophobic on this one - and do not ask me about the bogies or the brake arrangement or anything similar for I was just too tired after chasing Mk.1s all day.
From the Parkin book.
Perusal of the photos above shall show that the drawing in Parkin is pretty close - the seating on the corridor side of the Buffet Saloon shows two seats per table and omits the "seat back" which is between those seats.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Out of collection of Bus Pattern's by the look - definitely not the original.
Following on from Bob's (@Bob-65B) comment, I have found the above moquette in the transport section of Holdsworth's on-line catalogue where the pattern is considered as copyright of South West Trains. See this WT topic on Moquette material over the ages for further information. Whether the pattern originated with bus interests or not, Bob is correct to say that the pattern is not appropriate for the carriage in BR days :thumbs: as carriage S1105 was sold out of BR service circa 1982 whilst the SWT franchise commenced 1995.
 

The Penguin Of Doom

Western Thunderer
Hello.

Sorry to drag up an old topic, but does anyone know when these Griddle Cars were withdrawn and (apart from the Dual Braked example 1102?), which region did they end up on?

I'm looking for an excuse to run a catering car of some description with a Scottish region internal sleeper service but only have space in the rake for an SLC, BCK and a Catering Car. Probably not prototypical but Rule 1 would be invoked.

Cheers.

Sean.
 

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
More than Prototypical Sean - All the Diagram 30 & 31 Griddle Cars migrated within a few years of being built to being allocated to the Scottish Region. 1102 though was as you say the exception which ended up on the Eastern - I don't have Longworth for the withdrawal dates however they'd gone by circa 78' - we refurbished SC1100 in late 78 for Travellers Fare / the NRM. Regular visitor between Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen & Inverness... Rule 1 though applies to the length of the rake!
 

The Penguin Of Doom

Western Thunderer
Thank you Bob. As always, you seem to know your stuff when it comes to all things coaching stock.

Sadly, the Griddle Cars look like they were withdrawn from service a few years before our chosen period (1980). Do you think that a diagram 21 - 24 might fit the bill instead? I'd like something that could serve drinks of an evening but also serve up a bacon banjo on the morning run....? ;)

Cheers.

Sean.
 

Bob Reid

Western Thunderer
by 1980 there was a dearth of Scottish Region allocated Restaurant Car's full stop - almost all internal services having gone over to purely Mk1 RMB's - in fact I can find only one non anglo-scot service (Edinburgh-Inverness & Return) that had anything other than an RMB - and that was an RBR. The RCTS book for 1980 however lists the very few restaurant cars belonging to the region that remained as RB's 1660, 1662 (Vac Brake) and RBR's 1663, 1678,1680, and 1690 (Dual Brake).... So I guess your choice is use a bit of rule 1 and for the two diagram 24 RB's that were still around namely 1660 or 1662........ Maybe you should hang on to that RMB or how about creating a freshly converted BSO(T)....
 

The Penguin Of Doom

Western Thunderer
Hi Bob.

Thanks again for allowing me to tap into your in depth knowledge on all things coach.

By the sounds of it, it seems like I am going to have to go away from anything other than an RMB perhaps. I reckon with an RB or RBR I would be stretching things especially given the limited seating that an RB would give coupled to a BCK. I have a TSO which I was maybe going to use in the set (BCK, TSO, SLC - not forgetting Rule 1), and so I may fill in a few windows and convert it into an RMB to fulfil a drinks option on the Southbound run at least. Morning passengers on the Northbound service will just have to wait till they arrive for their bacon butties! ;)

As an aside, I have been using Easybuild Mk1s and have an RMB for one of the other sets as well as a BSO(t) for the second set. The reason I am selling the etched brass RMB is that I am a glutton for uniformity and can't guarantee this with an etched brass kit (and my lack of skills in this area). Bizarrely, I would be more confident in plating over the windows of an Easybuild TSO than attempting an etched brass kit! Anyway, I digress, thanks for your help and advice, it is well received.

Cheers.

Sean.

DSCN5228.jpg
 

lankytank

Western Thunderer
The moquette is the one commissioned by SouthWest Trains back in the nineties (1990's) for use on the 442 stock - blue was/is used in first class & the red is used in cattle class. Since rolled out across the entire fleet. I believe that a considerable amount of material was donated back in the day....... the pattern is 'supposed' to represent a 'stylised' timetable sheet.
 
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