BR Std 4 tank help please

[Thirtysecond]

Considering modelling the above but am having difficulty finding a GA drawing of this iconic tank locomotive. All I can find is weight distribution diagrams which, of course, aren't detailed enough. Can anybody help please and point me in the right direction. Disappointed that the RCTS book on the BR standard tanks had no GAs at all.

 

[Steph Dale]

Where have you looked?

Steph

 

[mickoo]

You'll be lucky to find a decent GA on line or in a book, so you'll probably end up at the NRM.

I've just had a quick look through the NRM Derby and Brighton lists, a GA or pipe and rod doesn't jump out. Boiler, frame, bunker and other individual drawings but not a combined one that I can see, other classes yes, the but these tank engines, no.

Doncaster and Swindon list very few standard 4 tank drawings at all, Brighton seems to have the largest selection followed by Derby and there are often duplicated drawings between the works, some are revisions others just the same drawing with a different number.

MD

 

[Len Cattley]

Have you asked Dave Sharpe from MOK if he can help?

Len

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,

That's what i was trying to check. I've got Brighton drawings list that could be checked and the W (Waterloo) series, but if the OP has checked there, there's little point me looking.

Of course, it's a Brighton design; I'd expect most relevant drawings to be there. All good experience they got from building Fairburn tanks that led to the improvements in the design leading to the Std 4 tank.

I've also been led to believe that neither the Fairburn nor Riddles class 4 tanks GA survive, but the number of times we've proved such authoritive statements wrong leads me wonder if they're still about, somewhere.

Steph

 

[Dog Star]

When you guys were busy being visitors to the York Show I spent time talking to the curatorial guys at the NRM... more specifically those peeps who have the task of retrieving drawings on request and copying same as and when needed. One thing came out of those discussions which is relevant to this topic. Just because an engine was designed by Brighton (in this case) then do not assume that the required drawings are constrained to the Brighton Works list - what I mean is that the NRM has made no attempt to sort drawings from works "A" by originator and hence if "A" has drawings which originated from "B" then those drawings are listed under "A" rather than under "B".

So look at lists for works which maintained the Class 4MT as well as the lists for those works which had design responsibility.

As an example of how things get lost / confused... I asked the NRM about drawings for the Class 123 / 124 units which were designed at Swindon. The NRM advised that they do not have anything relevant in the Swindon SC/SW lists... another WTer was able to help as some of the required material had surfaced at a BREL works much further north than Derby.

regards, Graham

 

[Thirtysecond]

You'll be lucky to find a decent GA on line or in a book, so you'll probably end up at the NRM.
MD

Actually, the 1982 OPC book"A Pictorial History of British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives" by E Talbot has excellent GAs of the Britannia (which I used to build my Coeur de Lion) and of a Std 4 2-6-0 which I will be using for the next model in the pipeline. However there are no GAs of the model I intend building after that (the Std 4 tank) or of any other standard tanks. Frustrating.

 

[Thirtysecond]

Where have you looked?

Steph

Talbot "Pictorial History..."(see above) and the supposedly definitive study on BR Stds by the RCTS. I haven't tried the NRM. I spent a whole day in the library there several years ago trying to find a GA of a Urie S15 and had no luck. I found one the Bradley book on Uries in the end and didn't have to stir from home!

 

[mickoo]

Actually, the 1982 OPC book"A Pictorial History of British Railways Standard Steam Locomotives" by E Talbot has excellent GAs of the Britannia (which I used to build my Coeur de Lion) and of a Std 4 2-6-0 which I will be using for the next model in the pipeline. However there are no GAs of the model I intend building after that (the Std 4 tank) or of any other standard tanks. Frustrating.

Actually, it's not so we'll differ on the term excellent then

Whilst said drawing is 'good' (and I do have a copy) it is only A4 size, on the other hand if you purchase a digital copy of the original drawing, (which I have), then it can be worked from digitally in great detail or printed to original size which is about 4 feet long (which I will when I get to that project) and thus it becomes an excellent drawing.

Having both the book and the digital copy there is sadly a vast amount of information simply not legible in the book copy, if it served your purpose then that's very good but it does not serve my purpose

When you guys were busy being visitors to the York Show...... Graham

The day before the York show I rummaged through 150+ NBL B1 drawings it's not all play you know

But I do know where your coming from, sometimes you have to get a bit creative when looking for drawings and search alternative avenues, sometimes they don't always come up blank

MD

 

[mickoo]

Talbot "Pictorial History..."(see above) and the supposedly definitive study on BR Stds by the RCTS. I haven't tried the NRM. I spent a whole day in the library there several years ago trying to find a GA of a Urie S15 and had no luck. I found one the Bradley book on Uries in the end and didn't have to stir from home!

I'm fairly sure the S15 drawings are there and I'm sure I saw them a few weeks back, Steph will know for sure as they're his cup 'o' tea, they may be under Pipe and Rod as opposed to General Arrangement which makes them a bit of a struggle to locate.

MD

 

[Dog Star]

The day before the York show I rummaged through 150+ NBL B1 drawings it's not all play you know .

Ha-ha, I agree.

The day before the York Show Peter and I spent an enjoyable day researching the interior of Gresley teaks (and BTK 3669 is superb).

The day after the York Show Peter and I spent a fruitless day researching the GCR coaches on the GCR(N)... we shall have to go back on a steaming day to access the carriages.

Apparently at a loose end we called in at Loughborough and found a Gresley D169 waiting at the platform and that was opportune in that we were able to apply a tape measure to the brake fittings so as to answer a query from Bob.

regards, Graham

 

[mickoo]

As much as I like digital copies nothing beats hands on with original drawings, some are getting quite tardy now (sadly), the NBL B1 P&R had the whole cab and rear view torn off, others were so faded as to be near useless. I only just had enough time to photo and measure up Mallards tender axle boxes and saw nothing else of the NRM collection, which is a shame.

MD

 

[Thirtysecond]

I think I have cracked it. I used to be involved with the larger scales and suddenly remembered that Doug Hewson produced drawings for his near perfect scale Std 4 tank in 5" scale. Went on his website and found that the GA is available for the princely sum of £12. Sorted!

 

[mickoo]

I think I have cracked it. I used to be involved with the larger scales and suddenly remembered that Doug Hewson produced drawings for his near perfect scale Std 4 tank in 5" scale. Went on his website and found that the GA is available for the princely sum of £12. Sorted!

Dougs drawings are pretty good, disappointed in the Britannia GA in aforementioned book I looked around and found his frame and general views on his site, when compared to the real drawings which I eventually got his were pretty close, close as it matters for what we do

There's also a couple of samples of a Pannier tank and the B1 with Group Standard Tender as well but I think they're on a model engineering site and not his own site.

£12 is excellent value for money too, far cheaper than traveling to NRM and purchasing said drawings.....if you could find them.

Best MD

 

[Steph Dale]

I can confirm that both Urie and Maunsell S15 drawings are at the NRM. I've found GAs, FAs and Pipe and Rod drawings are there, in the Eastleigh list.

Steph

 

[Thirtysecond]

..... if it served your purpose then that's very good but it does not serve my purpose

MD

It did serve my purpose and I was very pleased with the final result considering that this was live steam with a scale cab and working scale controls. It isn't possible to be as true to scale with a live steam model as with an electric one and so I guess that is why the Talbot GA was adequate despite its shortcomings.



OK the working cylinder drain valves are over scale I admit; unfortunately you cannot scale cylinder gunge!

 

[mickoo]

Handsome is as handsome does

I don't think the rest of the team will be very happy if I recover that anorak (Britannia) from the cupboard right now

Clearly they served your purpose exceptionally well I should rephrase my original comment, not good enough for my blundering

MD

 

[Scale7JB]

A very good friend is currently finishing of no.78 which is back in steam in a couple of weeks he may have drawings.. I'll check..

JB.

 

[Thirtysecond]

I can confirm that both Urie and Maunsell S15 drawings are at the NRM. I've found GAs, FAs and Pipe and Rod drawings are there, in the Eastleigh list.

Steph

To be fair it was back in the 1990s when I was searching and the indexing of their drawings was in a sorry state back then.

 

[Thirtysecond]

A very good friend is currently finishing of no.78 which is back in steam in a couple of weeks he may have drawings.. I'll check..

JB.

Thanks JB.