Brass Prices Set to Go Up - by 33%??

[Phill Dyson]

I suppose if it is true as has been suggested that Sang Cheng are pricing other retailers out of the market so they can just sell there stuff exclusively they will be able to charge as much as they like .............it seems to work for a certain other kit manufacturer who only sell direct to the public, It's a shame Bachmann pulled out of the brass market as there stuff was a lot more reasonably priced despite presumably coming from the same factory :?

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

I suppose if it is true as has been suggested that Sang Cheng are pricing other retailers out of the market so they can just sell there stuff exclusively they will be able to charge as much as they like .............it seems to work for a certain other kit manufacturer who only sell direct to the public, It's a shame Bachmann pulled out of the brass market as there stuff was a lot more reasonably priced despite presumably coming from the same factory :?

Hi Phill :wave:

Isnt the San Cheng stuff better than the old Bachmann stuff? :scratch:

Cheers

CME :wave:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Having trouble keeping up here lads but if I'm reading this correctley 1) I agree with Jordan, that wagons and coaches will probably affect us more than locos 2)it will possibly make more of us return to making our own stock and 3) I'm about to make a fortune cos I got lots of old 1 gallon oil cans :laugh: :laugh: Any offers must be pounds sterling :lol: :lol:

regards

Rog

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I will start saving old baked bean tins then :lol: :lol:

Cheers,

CME :wave:

 

[Phill Dyson]

The area I think might suffer from this brass price increase would be the wagon & coach market; few of us will ever have the means to fund a fleet of RTR brass locos (or even one!!), but wagons and coaches are things we all need if we want to model any resemblance of a real railway... & going back to Ebay, I do wonder at the prices wagons reach sometimes..!!

I wouldn't worry too much on that score as there are a few good plastic kit manufacturers who actually seem to care about the modellers they serve like Easybuild & Parkside

 

[Rob Pulham]

Maybe I had best stock up on brass sheet although I have just discovered that Metalsmith do Nickel sheet for only slightly more than I have been paying for brass. I also fancy having a go at having some rolling stock etched. I just need to master the CAD program :shock:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

I have copied the following from the FineScaleBrass web site,

We have further information today from the factory and would like to update you as follows
Due to the demand for labour in the Chinese market place the factory is running with reduced capacity as skilled staff are ?poached?. Because of the time it takes to train new staff, this is not simply a case of recruiting more and setting them to work there is a time scale involved. This means that the factory has to give priority to existing orders and new orders are on an extended lead time, this will have the following effect:


I believe that the decision to cutback on future Gauge 1 Brass imports by our main supplier is due to slow sales in the Gauge 1 model sector (a lot of money tied up on the shelves).

Hi Hoppy,

Thanks for Posting that

Yes it cant be much fun for retailers having lots of cash tied up in slow moving stock especially at this time .

An interesting development on the San Cheng front, still doesnt answer the proposed price hike, perhaps SC needs to make themselves more attractive to workers so as to retain the them and their tacit knowledge within the company :scratch:

CME :wave:

 

[Phill Dyson]

[quote=""Phill Dyson"":2qjow4gv]I suppose if it is true as has been suggested that Sang Cheng are pricing other retailers out of the market so they can just sell there stuff exclusively they will be able to charge as much as they like .............it seems to work for a certain other kit manufacturer who only sell direct to the public, It's a shame Bachmann pulled out of the brass market as there stuff was a lot more reasonably priced despite presumably coming from the same factory :?

Hi Phill :wave:

Isnt the San Cheng stuff better than the old Bachmann stuff? :scratch:

Cheers

CME :wave:[/quote:2qjow4gv]
Maybe so, as I say I'm not really in the market for this stuff, is the Tower Brass in the Bachmann league or the Sang Cheng league ?.
I know some of the Bachmann stuff was not quite right but I would be quite happy with one of the 03's ,08's or the MK1's with a bit of added home grown detail

Phill :wave:

 

[28ten]

Maybe I had best stock up on brass sheet although I have just discovered that Metalsmith do Nickel sheet for only slightly more than I have been paying for brass. I also fancy having a go at having some rolling stock etched. I just need to master the CAD program :shock:

What program are you using? custom etching is an area where I would notice an increase in raw materials

 

[28ten]

Maybe so, as I say I'm not really in the market for this stuff, is the Tower Brass in the Bachmann league or the Sang Cheng league ?.
I know some of the Bachmann stuff was not quite right but I would be quite happy with one of the 03's ,08's or the MK1's with a bit of added home grown detail

Phill :wave:

from what I have seen across my bench arriving for servicing the latest Sang cheng is much better quality than the earlier Bachmann

 

[bogusman]

Hi Guys :wave:

I have just had a quick look on the Tower Models website here on the interweb and they have just announced that San Cheng are to increase their prices by 30% by the 1st Jan 2011, that with the VAT increase will be 32.5% (so let's call it a 1/3rd then ).

Whilst I wasnt planning - unless the lottery came up - to buy one of those nice San Cheng RTR locos, I was wondering if such increases are the sign of things to come As a little aside I saw a very nice Black 5 - all lined out by the master Alan B - for sale on fleabay recently and that would have been bargain when compared to the pending price hike.

I had heard that brass was going up in price a couple of years back as the developing economies were buying up raw material stocks etc. and was set to overheat the market, yet I took such with a pinch of salt.

The question is will brass be going up in price by such an amount in general or is it that San Cheng have increased labour costs too?

I have endeavoured to future proof myself as much as possible against the VAT rise and I have chosen to focus on what is in hand in terms of models to be made - as much as possible - yet one can only buy what one can afford at the time and I wouldnt want to - even if I could - stock-pile kits just so as to beat a price increase.

My other thought is that if brass is set to go up in price, I wonder if lost wax brass castings etc. will do the same, making detailing of models costly too?!
I have recently purchased some for my 7mm NG locos and some for SG locos and whilst they are superb when they arrive you look at em and think there aint a lot there for ?15! - dont tell or show SWMBO (bless them, IMHO the fairer sex never understand such qaulity and the price thereof, yet they always seem to know the market price of diamonds, gold, white gold, silver etc and measure ones love for them by such :laugh: :lol: :twisted: ). I hasten to add that I am very lucky in this regard (I was told to say that, I am so glad that I wear the trousers in this house it gives me a real feeling of wellbeing :lol: )

If the aforementioned price hike/magnitude of such (33%) is true then at the start of next year, our beloved 7mm/O gauge will become even more challenging to those of us on a tight budget :scratch:

Of course my other - long term - theory may be coming to the fore at the worst possible time (recession), yet I have some doubts, in that the Chinese, as did the Japanese before them, have aquired knowledge, technologies and good market share which now = control for them. In terms of our beloved models, so much of the market is manufactured by China, that the lever of power may have finally swung in their favour and they now feel that they can call the shots in terms of price and availability - yet any market place will only bear so much, and if my theory/scenario is true, then it will be intresting to see if the UK market will tolerate such a price increase (that depends on the desire/will and means/ability of 7mm modellers to pay for such models).

I feel for the likes of Tower as they are now in an awkward position.

The question to my mind is; who controls this particualr supply/value-chain, who is in the driving seat?

Business mode OFF now :lol:

Sorry to be the bringer of - possibly - bad news!

Comments please.....

Cheers,

CME :wave:

Thought of going to 4mm think of the savings you'd make :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pete

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

[quote=""CME & Bottlewasher"":1jlodkq7]Hi Guys :wave:

I have just had a quick look on the Tower Models website here on the interweb and they have just announced that San Cheng are to increase their prices by 30% by the 1st Jan 2011, that with the VAT increase will be 32.5% (so let's call it a 1/3rd then ).

Whilst I wasnt planning - unless the lottery came up - to buy one of those nice San Cheng RTR locos, I was wondering if such increases are the sign of things to come As a little aside I saw a very nice Black 5 - all lined out by the master Alan B - for sale on fleabay recently and that would have been bargain when compared to the pending price hike.

I had heard that brass was going up in price a couple of years back as the developing economies were buying up raw material stocks etc. and was set to overheat the market, yet I took such with a pinch of salt.

The question is will brass be going up in price by such an amount in general or is it that San Cheng have increased labour costs too?

I have endeavoured to future proof myself as much as possible against the VAT rise and I have chosen to focus on what is in hand in terms of models to be made - as much as possible - yet one can only buy what one can afford at the time and I wouldnt want to - even if I could - stock-pile kits just so as to beat a price increase.

My other thought is that if brass is set to go up in price, I wonder if lost wax brass castings etc. will do the same, making detailing of models costly too?!
I have recently purchased some for my 7mm NG locos and some for SG locos and whilst they are superb when they arrive you look at em and think there aint a lot there for ?15! - dont tell or show SWMBO (bless them, IMHO the fairer sex never understand such qaulity and the price thereof, yet they always seem to know the market price of diamonds, gold, white gold, silver etc and measure ones love for them by such :laugh: :lol: :twisted: ). I hasten to add that I am very lucky in this regard (I was told to say that, I am so glad that I wear the trousers in this house it gives me a real feeling of wellbeing :lol: )

If the aforementioned price hike/magnitude of such (33%) is true then at the start of next year, our beloved 7mm/O gauge will become even more challenging to those of us on a tight budget :scratch:

Of course my other - long term - theory may be coming to the fore at the worst possible time (recession), yet I have some doubts, in that the Chinese, as did the Japanese before them, have aquired knowledge, technologies and good market share which now = control for them. In terms of our beloved models, so much of the market is manufactured by China, that the lever of power may have finally swung in their favour and they now feel that they can call the shots in terms of price and availability - yet any market place will only bear so much, and if my theory/scenario is true, then it will be intresting to see if the UK market will tolerate such a price increase (that depends on the desire/will and means/ability of 7mm modellers to pay for such models).

I feel for the likes of Tower as they are now in an awkward position.

The question to my mind is; who controls this particualr supply/value-chain, who is in the driving seat?

Business mode OFF now :lol:

Sorry to be the bringer of - possibly - bad news!

Comments please.....

Cheers,

CME :wave:

Thought of going to 4mm think of the savings you'd make :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pete[/quote:1jlodkq7]

Hi Pete :wave:

Dont even go there, at times, when slaving over a hot iron with p!ss poor instructions and poorly fitting parts, 4mm RTR seems very appealing, yet 7mm has me hooked and there is no turning back now - even if I have to use baked bean tins :scratch: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers :wave:

 

[Rob Pulham]

[quote=""Rob Pulham"":nr9aprwe]Maybe I had best stock up on brass sheet although I have just discovered that Metalsmith do Nickel sheet for only slightly more than I have been paying for brass. I also fancy having a go at having some rolling stock etched. I just need to master the CAD program :shock:

What program are you using? custom etching is an area where I would notice an increase in raw materials [/quote:nr9aprwe]

I am using A9CAD a freebie download but it does seem to do 2D work OK, I just don't spend enough time playing with it. What I would like to do is the 1939 Streamlined Coronation set that went of to America. I have 4mm Skinley drawings and my original plan was to do them in 4mm but since dabbling in 7mm with all its extra detail I may as well go for it in 7mm. I can get a lot of the detailing bits (roof's/bogies) from Sidelines, I may even be able to use their floor pans. Now you have me thinking :scratch:

I also have the free version of Alibre Design but haven't done much beyond the first basic lesson.

 

[adrian]

There is a difference between mangement bu!!shit speak and academic/scientific rigour though ....I'll get me coat........ :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't mind them talking the talk as long as they can do the walk as well. Too often they come up with new schemes or strategies but fail to put the effort in to back it up and then they're on to the next fad.

We put up a poster with our new strategy last week title "Organisational Lead Development - Flight Analysis Restructuring Team Strategy."

Adrian

 

[28ten]

Round here we have - Special Integrated Holistic Training - job opportunities :laugh:

 

[28ten]

[quote=""28ten"":1dq3qxlo][quote=""Rob Pulham"":1dq3qxlo]Maybe I had best stock up on brass sheet although I have just discovered that Metalsmith do Nickel sheet for only slightly more than I have been paying for brass. I also fancy having a go at having some rolling stock etched. I just need to master the CAD program :shock:

What program are you using? custom etching is an area where I would notice an increase in raw materials [/quote:1dq3qxlo]

I am using A9CAD a freebie download but it does seem to do 2D work OK, I just don't spend enough time playing with it. What I would like to do is the 1939 Streamlined Coronation set that went of to America. I have 4mm Skinley drawings and my original plan was to do them in 4mm but since dabbling in 7mm with all its extra detail I may as well go for it in 7mm. I can get a lot of the detailing bits (roof's/bogies) from Sidelines, I may even be able to use their floor pans. Now you have me thinking :scratch:

I also have the free version of Alibre Design but haven't done much beyond the first basic lesson.[/quote:1dq3qxlo]

I have never used A9CAD but all these programs need some perseverance, to get the most from them. I find anything apart from AutoCad difficult, just because it is what I am used to. I couldnt get on with Alibre :vista:
Coach sides are not that difficult to draw, the hard bit is normally getting the roof profile correct with either rolling or forming it some way

 

[Rob Pulham]

I don't have too much bother these days with roofs since I invested in a set of GW rolling bars but for the Coronation set I would hope to use some Sidelines extruded aluminium roofs.
Having had a quick look since my earlier posting the bogie centres are 51' 9" so I could get away with using the Sidelines 57' underframe by shortening it a bit - no point in re-inventing the wheel. So I would only need to etch the sides, ends, interiors and some valences to go over the solebars. At a pinch initially I could make the interiors from plasticard but it would depend on what I could get on a sheet for etching. I would need to ensure that there was room for four sides and ends as all the cars were twinsets except the Club car and it would make sense to do each pair together if possible.

The bit I need to get a grip on is remembering to do the different bits on layers rather than all on one layer

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

[quote=""CME & Bottlewasher"":2tt43ejp]
There is a difference between mangement bu!!shit speak and academic/scientific rigour though ....I'll get me coat........ :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't mind them talking the talk as long as they can do the walk as well. Too often they come up with new schemes or strategies but fail to put the effort in to back it up and then they're on to the next fad.

We put up a poster with our new strategy last week title "Organisational Lead Development - Flight Analysis Restructuring Team Strategy."

Adrian[/quote:2tt43ejp]

Hi Adrian :wave:

Shiney suits and change for change sake eh? It's like 're-branding' with new signage, letter heads and logos, in the belief that all the old problems will fade with such superficial changes, along with a few tax breaks thrown in for good measure etc.... :scratch: :lol:

Very few of those 'types' can walk the walk and most of their strategies are inappropriate IMH - and humble - O

Cheers,

CME :wave:

O.L.D.F.A.R.T.S eh :lol: :lol: