Building an Ace Kits "K"

Sandy Harper

Western Thunderer
I couldn't agree more about your comments, Chris. I'm learning a lot during this build, more than I would with a straightforward kit. That doesn't excuse the poor quality.

Here's where I'm up to now.

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Footplate now incorporates those lovely sweeping curves. Valance is fitted. Splasher sides are bent up from the footplate. And I removed the splasher top from one of the splashers to see whether it provided a better result if formed and fitted separately. It's just been tacked in place for the moment. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a better, more even shape than if there ws a flat top, so I'll apply this to each splasher in turn. I need to check the instructions such as they are but it appears to me that the splasher tops are actually a wee bit short for the way they are intended to fit - My there is a half etched line which I think should tuck under the footplate to give a good fit, but it doesn't! I'll review things before I proceed further, but the remaining splashers will probably be curved inside out.

Brian
This is a depressingly familiar story. See my A3 build on RMweb. The A3 splashers were also etched with these strange half etch lines and were also too short. They were however etched separate and I fitted them with the etched line on the underside! Surprisingly the smoke box saddle went together beautifully!

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oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I've managed another couple of afternoons in the workshop, between serving the builders cups of tea and coffee every hour or so.

(There was also the great flood of Buckland. The pipework to the sink in the workshop came apart a couple of weeks ago (not my workmanship!) and water was pouring out under the garage doors. Unfortunately the floor is insulated and suspended, so only time will tell whether there is any long term damage. I had the heaters and dehumidifier on for a week, and now have fans directed on the walls of the workshop to try to evaporate any seeping water.)

Development of the footplate is back in hand. Please forgive these rather dodgy photos from my new phone. I've clearly not got to grips with it yet.

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This is the footplate as it stands now, with the splashers fitted and in place. They were removed from the etch, rolled and fitted individually. Apart from not following the process as described in the instructions they actually went together rather well.
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Here I've fitted the smokebox saddle supports. This is designed to be a slot and tab location, but the slot is, in common with most of those within the kit, too large an all dimensions for the tab on the parts. I suppose this isn't a major problem, but the requirement to measure and mark out a location to centralise what should be straightforward fit is, at the least, unnecessary and at worst sloppy.

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This is what I believe is called a frame extension - forgive me if I have the name wrong - laid over a drawing. It looks about right for dimensions and layout.

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However, when fitted those saddle supports are in the wrong position - or is it the frame extensions which are wrong? The only way I can see of checking this is to make up the boiler/firebox assembly and see how that measures up against the frames. One or other is incorrect. I will check against the drawings of the "K" too, but there are known compromises with this kit, so when parts are matched to it they may not be quite right. It's difficult to understand how this can be wrong even at the design stage, let alone during any test build. Hmm - test build........ I suspect that those are two words which are an oxymoron as far as this kit is concerned.

I made up the boiler yesterday (no boiler former is included in the kit, so I've simply taken the rolled boiler as supplied, held the two edges together with three wraps of soft iron wire and soldered the seam from the outside. I've not yet found any former for the firebox either.) There is a ring for the front of the smokebox, but as far as I can see that goes on the outside of the boiler. Inevitably the boiler is not entirely and accurately round, so I'll have to make a couple of internal formers to try and regularise the shape. Then I'll strengthen the seam with some support on the inside.

When it comes to the firebox it'll doubtless be another joy - even a quick dry check against the footplate shows that the cut outs for the splashers do not match the splasher shapes, so modification here will be necessary too. Then I have no idea how the firebox fits to the boiler. No doubt either all will become apparent or I'll bodge something........

Brian
 

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Brian,
Thank goodness I had someone build this kit for me. Compared to your build mine is only fit for the back of the shed.
Roger
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Brian

As a suggestion..... after seeing daylight twixt the frame extension and running plate.

I'd be inclined to make a new pair of frame extensions using the original or the GA as a template for the top section and make them slightly deeper to fit into slots cut into the running plate in which to solder them into.

This would means you would not have to cut a reverse curve in the bottom of the new pair to match the running plate. Once soldered in place you can grind off any excess underneath back to the underside of the running plate.
 
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simond

Western Thunderer
Brian

It’s worth making formers to get the boiler round IMO. You’ll need them for the firebox too.

Marking blue, centre punch, screw dividers, fretsaw...

Or

Spray mount, scale drawing (good copy thereof), fretsaw.

The latter is quicker and likely more accurate.

Best
Simon
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Ah yes, but that involves a coherent design strategy.

Anybody following Sandy Harper's 'pick and mix' A3? Unbelievable!

Richard
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
So, why did I get you the GAs...? :headbang:

Steph
The frame extensions look right against the GA. As I said :p it's impossible to say what other compromises have been made in the kit itself such that it's better to leave the boiler mountings where they are (probably incorrect), or

I'd be inclined to make a new pair of frame extensions using the original or the GA as a template for the top section and make them slightly deeper to fit into slots cut into the running plate in which to solder them into.

This would means you would not have to cut a reverse curve in the bottom of the new pair to match the running plate. Once soldered in place you can grind off any excess underneath back to the underside of the running plate.

do as Dave suggests above - a consideration already on the horizon in view of the poor fit to the curve of the footplate anyway, causing the "daylight twixt the frame extension and running plate."

Brian

It’s worth making formers to get the boiler round IMO. You’ll need them for the firebox too.

Marking blue, centre punch, screw dividers, fretsaw...

Or

Spray mount, scale drawing (good copy thereof), fretsaw.

The latter is quicker and likely more accurate.

Best
Simon
Yep!! Done the formers for the boiler yesterday afternoon. Formers for the firebox will probably follow using your suggested second technique because (as Steph has kindly pointed out) I have the drawings. I just hope that the firebox etch fits afterwards.....:)

They could have so easily gone onto the etch ............:p
Simon
Indeed they could, Simon. Or I could have mentioned it to you previously and you could have done a couple for me when you (very kindly) did the slide bars.:bowdown:

And Richard. Coherent design strategy? Another oxymoron.:))

And Heather - maybe if they'd been triangular it would have been an improvement.:))

More will follow, assuming that the men in long white coats haven't visited.

Brian
 

simond

Western Thunderer
99% of 60% is 59.4%

Other ratios are available, however doing a copy of a copy is fraught with potential distortions.

Best
Simon
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Latest update. Not much progress, but all in the preparation.....

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The boiler came ready rolled. There was a slight flat where the rolling had started and a twist had been imparted, but on the whole the thing looked approximately round. In the absence of any formers I decided to seam solder on the outside, which would be relatively easy to clean up afterwards. Once soldered it was obvious that there is a slight ovality so formers were essential to restore the required roundness.

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I used the smokebox front as my reference for the formers. This is intended to fit on the outside of the boiler (as far as I can tell, but the instructions are mute on this point). The advantage of using this is that with careful cutting out the formers will be slightly oversize and can be gently filed back until a good fit.

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The metal used was nickel silver etch waste from the chassis of an Oakville Black 5 (Mickoo would never allow that amount of metal to go to waste on an etch!) and the other cut from a piece of thickish brass I had in stock. I followed the normal procedure for marking out, using an indelible marker which showed the scribed line. I also marked off the discs in quarters so that I had references to work to as I rotated the pieces during filing back to fit the boiler barrel.

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Both discs are a decent tight fit and have restored the boiler to it's proper profile. I'll take the centre out of the disc at the firebox end so that I can fit a speaker, gain access for seaming the boiler on the inside and to give access for adding any weight which may be desirable.

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Some more metal was cut from the sheet in preparation for making the firebox formers. Again, none are provided in the kit and I can only assume that forming this rather complex shape is intended to be done around thin air. I used a scrawker to cut the metal as I find that gives me a nice straight line and no problems with the metal bending as it does if cut with tin snips. Both pieces of metal were polished and sweated together so that I could cut two out for the price of one.

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I cut out the firebox shape from the scaled drawing and stuck this to the metal using mounting adhesive. Unfortunately, despite leaving for the requisite ten minutes before starting cutting the drawing shifted on the brass, which accounts for the strange cut at top right. Fortunately I realised before I'd cut too far, and as these are simply formers it wasn't too painful. Here the completed formers are laid on the drawing.

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And duly separated with the aid of a gas torch. They appear slightly asymmetric here, but when laid on one another are a pretty good match.

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Here's one of the formers laying on the firebox to be formed.

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And here, in an approximate position within the frames confirming that, at least, the overall width is pretty good. In fact, allowing for the thickness of the firebox wrapper they may need a small amount of filing back so that the unit can be made to fit.

Now to do battle with the firebox.......

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Another afternoon in the workshop. The main objective was to create the firebox.

Hoist by my own self satisfactory petard I found out that the formers I'd made were too large by the thickness of the wrapper.:rant:

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However, using Adrian's technique of hitting the thing with a hammer - well, a soft headed mallet (much as I'd have liked to have beaten it in to submission) over various tubes and rods I was able to create something which was vaguely smokebox shaped. Then, rather than forming the thing around the former I made the former to fit.

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The front of the firebox was then formed around some small rods. The brass had already been split at the corners but not really shaped to take account of the corners. This whole assembly will need filling with solder and filing back to shape. This could have been made easier, but the creation of the corners by filling with solder is not so difficult. What I find unacceptable is the lack of provided formers.

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Even more unacceptable is the gap created at the top corners around the boiler/firebox conjunction. Surely it would not be unreasonable to expect this to be designed in. I'll fill the corners with some scrap brass and then shape them with low melt solder and file back to shape, but if this was a first time kit it'd put any newcomer off kit building for life. There is absolutely nothing in the instructions about how to deal with the firebox other than to shape it and fit to the boiler.
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Then the dry run of the boiler to firebox join. The boiler appears to be too high against the firebox, This may be down to the saddle being too high or the firebox too low. Using the tab on the firebox in the slot on the cab front suggests that the height of the firebox is as designed.

I'm going to try tacking the boiler to smokebox and mount both, temporarily, on the footplate. This should give me some idea of where the errors might be built in so that I can consider what action to take. And before suggestions are made about checking against the GA I can confirm that the firebox looks a bit low, but only by a mm or so. In the photo this seems to be dipping a bit towards the front. The saddle looks to be about right as does the boiler. If the smokebox is indeed low I'll find a way of building it up at the base - more low temp solder filling I suspect.

Brian
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
How was the kit designed without anything for the front of the firebox? It would have been easy to provide a separate shaped piece or to design it with extended the top or side fold over bits so they meet to fill the gaps. As well as the gaps at the shoulders there needs to be something to fill below the boiler.

I can't decide whether watching your trials and tribulations with this kit is inspiring me to start, or holding me back from starting a kit that is sitting on the shelf. It is from a different manufacturer but looks like it has similar design standards. I want to use as much of it as possible but have already decided that the body will be fully scratch built as it will be quicker and less painful. The frames might be OK but maybe not. So much for starting with a kit to save time. And then there is another kit that needs to be finished, the good bits are mostly assembled but there is still lots to do.

The K will look good when it is finished. At least you have the GA to guide you in making replacement parts.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Brian,

I am reminded of Chris / Pencarrow’s fight with a 1366 pannier as described in glorious detail in the other place. Indeed, I’m reminded of my own fight with a 1366 pannier of entirely different parentage,(assuming the term “parents” applies to an utter b....) also over there, but in much less detail.

I take it that the boiler is the right diameter? In which case I guess it’s too high at the front, if only because of the air gap between it and the splashers. I’m sure that the DO would not wish to place the boiler any higher than necessary to clear the wheels (unless something else forced them to, but I can’t think of anything).

Reading between the various bits & piecs in post 303 tends to confirm this opinion!

Best
Simon
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Brian

Looking at your last photo I don't think it is quite as bad as it might be, the firebox is definitely sagging down at the front, once its straight I think it will be ok.

Keep up the good you are almost there.

Richard
 
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