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Discussion in 'Area 51' started by oldravendale, 1 August 2014.
Now, why didn't I think of that?
I wonder who could do that for me?
A thought if I may re backheads. The Bluebell railway are constructing a Brighton atlantic using a GNR atlantic boiler as the starting point, there is apparently little difference. I don't know whether there is much difference in the backheads of atlantic and K classes, nor means to check, but it might be a relatively easy way out.
Brian I admire your tenacity, but for goodness sake, do the right thing and send the drawings over. A 3D print will take an evening or less to draft and look a million times better.
I know that's what I should be doing, Mick. I'm currently fitting footsteps and will locate the scaled drawings once that's done.
I had a look at an Atlantic back head, Martin and it was significantly different. However, I'll review photos of Atlantic and K cabs again. It may be a get out of jail card.....
Thanks for the suggestion.
The Atlantic and K will have significantly different backplates as one is round topped and wide, the other Belpaire and narrow.
But, many of the fittings will be the same. Watch the various hot/ cold/ Ashford injectors and various pumps as they move around on the K a fair deal.
The combination ejector will be the same though.
Thanks for that. Steph. I know I looked at the Atlantic backhead and I'm certain that I would have bought it if it had been suitable. In fact I bought a set of LG Atlantic backhead fittings as many of them will be common to both types.
Here's a photo of a "K" cab (with acknowledgements to the copyright holder) - it's the best I have - although the loco is in a condition much earlier than mine. The question for me is what bits are likely to have changed between the date of the photo and the 1960's? (I'm interested here in the cab fittings - I'm well aware of the cab roof and cut down accoutrements).
You'll probably need @Yorkshire Dave's help here too, but the most obvious things will be:
1. Find photo of K class cab in BR era, otherwise we're only guessing;
2. Remove two off hot water injector clack valves (your loco I think has Ashford injectors under the cab and boiler-side clacks)
3. Remove Weir pump steam valve (your loco doesn't have feed water heating or the pump I think)
4. Add standard SR combination ejector to allow the loco to haul vacuum braked trains
I'll see if I can find anything more helpful
Taken 1951 at Eastleigh, this is part of an image in 'Southern Steam in Works', D. Bradford Barton Ltd 1978, reproduced only for education/research purposes.
You need to check your lists and see whether this loco still has it's Weir pump in '51, otherwise you're good to go (in fact I suspect the cab backhead doesn't change much - it's just whether the steam from the handwheel/valve on the LHS goes to a pump or injector). That's definitely an Ashford injector on the visible side; that sack barrow is unfortunately covering where you might otherwise be able to see the one on the other side: Always the way!
Sorry about that Brian, apart from getting the shape of the firebox completely wrong, it wasn't a bad idea. Steph has the details about right, I think the vacuum ejector would be a Gresham & Craven Dreadnought, I've never been aware of any other type on SR engines. I note they have the modernised Stroudley fire hole door, common in Scotland and subsequently perpetrated by Gresley at Doncaster, absolutely awful if you have to fire the b****y things.
On the pic from Steph you can see the steam valve on the LHS of the backhead where the combination injector used to be which rather points to a flood injector behind the cab steps. Wikipedia suggests the feed water heating was removed between 49-53 on maintenance cost grounds.
Thanks Martin and Steph.
I'll just have to study this and go from there. I'm pretty sure that (surprisingly) the Stroudley fire hole door is included in the kit. There's quite a few other bits which I can't identify, and the instructions don't help but, after all the enjoyment this kit has created already I'm going to be really well educated.
Good job you're here at the end of next week, Steph. You can look through the tray of bits.
What loco number do you intend to apply to the model as I can also trawl my books for photographs (if any).
This will also help decide whether the Weir feed pump was removed or not. From Bradley's book 32339 and 32352 had their Weir pumps removed in February 1949 and the last modified was 32350 in December 1953. Ashford pattern No. 9 injectors were fitted during the removal of the Weir pump giving the locos a second injector.
2342 carried the C.A.V. electric lighting system with the generator between the cab and Westinghouse pump on the right hand side of the engine. This was removed in January 1951.
32342 had Ramsbottom safety valves from Februrary 1951 to March 1958.
Vacuum ejectors were fitted to the class during the first few years of grouping.
The class had steam heat fittings almost from inception.
Albeit an E4, I used Laurie Griffin fittings from his LBSC Atlantic backhead kit (I asked for the kit without the backhead casting). A vacuum ejector was purchased separately and modified.
That's very helpful, Dave.
I bought the Atlantic cab castings from LG without the back head so that's a good start. The loco I'm basing mine on is 32337 in 1963, ie only just prior to withdrawal which is when I saw it. Part of my problem with this is the naming of the parts, but I'll go trough the castings and try to create something along the lines of the photo Steph has provided. There are certainly significant differences between my photo in 1913 and Steph's in 1951. I suspect the best I can hope for is something generic but believable.
This may hinder more than help but.....
Cab section of a B4x (similar boiler)
Thank you Andy. I'll compare that directly with the (little) evidence I have. At first sight it looks very close.
Good find Andy .
Brian - B4X and K boilers were interchangeable. The B4X was a rebuild of the B4 using the K boiler.
Thanks Dave. So Andy, from saying I'll compare it I'll now be using it with enthusiasm.
I'm mighty close to detailing. I made up and fitted the reversing rod today (more on that and pictures later), footsteps are made up and almost ready to solder in place, In fact, over the last couple of days much "fettling" has occured.
I have a lot of photos of Ks. However, there is a detail variation which I've not noticed previously, and that's the washout plugs. I think I know the patterns of plugs used on my loco, and am prepared to go with my assumptions based on my own photo. However, if anyone has a magic source of images and can find a late BR, circa 1962, photo of 32337 I'll be very grateful. (Apart from which my photo is, of course, of only one side. There's no guarantee that the other side won't be different......)
Err, it's more likely that the other side is different...
Pound to a penny that the washout plugs are staggered alternately for a start.