Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Well, as no one else has asked... then I shall
.Why is building the MMP RMB as a Diagram 99 considered to be a "shame"?
As I know not a lot about such things... what are the differences between D97, D98 and D99?
Building an MMP RMB - a box of delights
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
.Why is building the MMP RMB as a Diagram 99 considered to be a "shame"?
As I know not a lot about such things... what are the differences between D97, D98 and D99?
Well, as no one else has asked... then I shall
Why is building the MMP RMB as a Diagram 99 considered to be a "shame"?
As I know not a lot about such things... what are the differences between D97, D98 and D99?
Err - it isn't! I just made a light hearted remark about it being a shame, as we would not see Heather building the B1 Bogies [that is all I mean't, honest Guv] - but as Richard says, they do not fit the vehicle for the time he is modelling it.
The D97 has one extra seating bay in place of a storage cupboard [and hence one extra window] - so it would be very hard to model from the kit, which is a D98. The D99s were fitted with Commonwealth bogies from new but I think [and here Bob could clarify things a little more] are broadbly similar in other respects to the D98s.
Just build the chassis as for the kit and adjust the stretchers in the CW bogie to suit. IMHO the ABS ones are the best available, though any might require some scratchbuilding of the internal structure and linkage - See Parkin book.
adrian
Flying Squad
To a certain degree - if you're paying then yes you have the right to request it. Doesn't mean that the builder has to supply it that way, they have the right to refuse the job. I know of a loco builder who turned down a commission job because the version of the loco was incorrect. The builder didn't want their good name associated with something they knew would be criticised by other modellers.
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
Exactly as you describe David. As built the 12 Diagram 97 vehicles had no store cupboard as fitted on the later builds and therefore had one extra seating bay and bodylight on the buffet side. The Diag 97's were later (in the early to mid 70s) converted to remove the addtional seating bay and give it the store cupboard in line with the later builds. As built the Diag 97 vehicles had a different roof ventilator and fan layout from the early builds and were the only ones to have curved rainstrips below the toilet and centre tank fillers. The Diag 97's were also built without external glazing frames but in line with the policy of the time they were fitted with them in later years.
The Diagram 98 & 99 were almost identical apart from the bogies as David describes. The biggest change between the 97 & 98/99 though was made to the interior. All were fitted out from new with seating and trim in line with the improved interiors intended for all Mk1's introduced from 1959 onwards. - Basically more formica and including formica panelled seat ends without the classic wooden "wings". All received external glazing frames as built (though some were involved early on in 1960 with trial fitment of double glazing).
Just to summarise the RMB Builds....
Lot 30485 Diagram 97 built BR York 1958 E1801-1812
BR Std. Mk2 Light Double Bolster Bogie,
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30520 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1960 W1813-1816, M1817-1828, SC1829-1837
Commonwealth Bogies
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30507 Diagram 98 built BR Wolverton 1960 SC1838-1848, S1849-1852
BR Std. Mk2 Light Double Bolster Bogie,
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30670 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1962 E1853-1864
Commonwealth Bogie
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30702 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1962 M1865-1870, E1871-1882
Commonwealth Bogie
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Note that the regional allocations above are those applicable at the time the vehicles were built (from the BR Diagram Book). From the late 60s there were a lot of changes between the regions for one reason or another. Similarly, just like any Mark 1 - especially Restaurant Cars, there's a fair old amount of devil in the detail....
What period / region are you aiming for Richard?
(Doh....! apologies Richard - never saw this http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/mmp-rmb-omg.2987/#post-81799 )
Regards
The Diagram 98 & 99 were almost identical apart from the bogies as David describes. The biggest change between the 97 & 98/99 though was made to the interior. All were fitted out from new with seating and trim in line with the improved interiors intended for all Mk1's introduced from 1959 onwards. - Basically more formica and including formica panelled seat ends without the classic wooden "wings". All received external glazing frames as built (though some were involved early on in 1960 with trial fitment of double glazing).
Just to summarise the RMB Builds....
Lot 30485 Diagram 97 built BR York 1958 E1801-1812
BR Std. Mk2 Light Double Bolster Bogie,
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30520 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1960 W1813-1816, M1817-1828, SC1829-1837
Commonwealth Bogies
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30507 Diagram 98 built BR Wolverton 1960 SC1838-1848, S1849-1852
BR Std. Mk2 Light Double Bolster Bogie,
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30670 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1962 E1853-1864
Commonwealth Bogie
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Lot 30702 Diagram 99 built BR Wolverton 1962 M1865-1870, E1871-1882
Commonwealth Bogie
Equalised Vacuum Brakes.
Note that the regional allocations above are those applicable at the time the vehicles were built (from the BR Diagram Book). From the late 60s there were a lot of changes between the regions for one reason or another. Similarly, just like any Mark 1 - especially Restaurant Cars, there's a fair old amount of devil in the detail....
What period / region are you aiming for Richard?
(Doh....! apologies Richard - never saw this http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/mmp-rmb-omg.2987/#post-81799 )
Regards
40126
Western Thunderer
I collected a box from Mr Carr today. It's an MMP Mk1 RMB (miniature buffet) kit, with the interior detail kit.
Picture of the etches please, Heather ?.
Steve
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Picture of the etches please, Heather ?.
All in good time. I'm not ready to start the build yet.
Picture of the etches please, Heather ?.
Steve
http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=4321
A CK - but you will get the general impression
richard carr
Western Thunderer
We will be using JLTRT commonwealth bogies, these are quite nice and are fully sprung, they are already built, as I put these together a few months back when travelling.
Richard
Richard
40126
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I've changed the original title. Now I've studied an MMP coach kit build, and had a good look inside the box, I feel happy I can do this kit some justice.
I plan to begin building just after the new year kicks in, once the LNWR coaches I'm finishing are more or less complete - they're not too far off, but I have a habit of counting my chickens and missing by a fair whack! The start date is sooner than my original prediction, but I plan to interleave two builds, the other being a JLTRT 57xx pannier tank. Two builds on the go will hopefully stop me getting bogged down if something causes me frustration in one kit or another.
Today, I have been getting some intensive detail picking in. There's a virtually forensic photo study of S1840 on the Mid Hants Railway over on Flickr, which has some useful information in it. I need to see if I can find a preserved RMB with ETH and dual braking, which could lead to some fun! I shall shortly send Richard an outline of the build so we can properly confirm the actual details he would like.
I am now really wishing I could get the coach-building pixies to hurry up and complete the current build so I can get on with this one!
I plan to begin building just after the new year kicks in, once the LNWR coaches I'm finishing are more or less complete - they're not too far off, but I have a habit of counting my chickens and missing by a fair whack! The start date is sooner than my original prediction, but I plan to interleave two builds, the other being a JLTRT 57xx pannier tank. Two builds on the go will hopefully stop me getting bogged down if something causes me frustration in one kit or another.
Today, I have been getting some intensive detail picking in. There's a virtually forensic photo study of S1840 on the Mid Hants Railway over on Flickr, which has some useful information in it. I need to see if I can find a preserved RMB with ETH and dual braking, which could lead to some fun! I shall shortly send Richard an outline of the build so we can properly confirm the actual details he would like.
I am now really wishing I could get the coach-building pixies to hurry up and complete the current build so I can get on with this one!
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I was just pondering doing just that. If I may pick your brains about dual braking and heating on these vehicles, that would be wonderful.
Essentially, I need to know:
- Running numbers for RMBs that might have been dual braked in the late 1970s/early 1980s
- Roughly how and where the air brake gear was fitted and worked in association with the "normal" vac braking
- What extra equipment was fitted, and where, below decks for ETH
I've found several preserved RMBs not far from me, so I think we might venture forth to see a real one in a couple of weeks or so. I'm going to approach the folk who care for them to see if I can get access above and beyond the normal visiting punters, especially as things are generally in the off season for such places at the moment.
Bob Reid
Western Thunderer
I'll have a trawl later this evening Heather and fill in most of the blanks. You are spot on with the brakegear for the CW fitted RMB's - they all had Asymmetric Vee Hangers and the "outboard" brake cylinders, with the pull rod running over the top of the bogie frame - thus;
This was the basic (Vacuum Brake) arrangement - what I need to check - perhaps your visits would confirm it is whether any were fitted with brake regulators between the last lever and the pull rod. As I I say though more later...
Regards,
This was the basic (Vacuum Brake) arrangement - what I need to check - perhaps your visits would confirm it is whether any were fitted with brake regulators between the last lever and the pull rod. As I I say though more later...
Regards,
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Brake regulator? How does that relate to the Slack Adjuster which featured in some of the pikkies that I posted to the Mk.1 Resources thread?
