Building the JLTRT Rebuilt Royal Scot

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by oldravendale, 21 May 2020.

  1. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Earwig O again.

    Tender frames in the flat. Slots for SDMP hornguides marked out and some of them fitted.


    On the Hobby Holidays jig. Frankly I'd be lost without this. I've used one of the etched axle holes as the reference on each side. The centre hornguide here is in place but not clamped yet for soldering in position. The frame will be bent to the final U shape and spacers fitted on completion of the hornguides.


    Hornguide now clamped in position ready for soldering.


    Frame spacers are now on the bench and currently having cusps removed and tabs filed to fit slots where the new hornguides have compromised the original positions. This has actually worked out rather well. The soldering is not the neatest in the world. In recent months my hands have become rather unsteady so I've had to change my soldering technique which now goes: Drink Scotch. Pour flux on the joint. Pick up small piece of solder on the tip of the iron. Drink more Scotch. Take aim and lunge as close as possible to the point where the joint is to be made. Sidle up to the position of the joint and take it by surprise. Check I've not knocked anything out of position. Locate wet 'n dry, scrapers etc and tidy stuff up. Drink Scotch. Takes a bloody age but it always looks pretty good when I've finished the Scotch.

    Still, it keeps me off street corners and out of pubs, I suppose.:D

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  2. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer


    Just remember to drill a hole in the rear spacer, over each of those hornblocks to allow access to twiddle the height-adjusting screw. It'll be much easier to do while the part is still flat!

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  3. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Personally I wouldn't let soldering get in the way of drinking Scotch or any alcoholic beverage for that matter! :D :)
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  4. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    BD ...........66 SQUADRON nameplate for sale this week( Great Central Railwayana Auctions).......a worthy companion for the model......only......£12 500 and counting................ if you're tempted.............regards..Brian W
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  5. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer


    If only.......

    This is how I remember it. Seaton Junction, Evening of 29 August 1961 after a wonderful day at Lyme Regis with a couple of friends. My copyright.

    34110.  Seaton Junction.  Evening of 29 August 1961. Photo by Brian Dale  - Copy.jpg

    Out of idle interest I'll have a look at the auction site - if there's a badge with it it's definitely a forgery.:D

    Mickoo of this parish built the Finney7 kit as 66 Squadron for the trade stand, although it's my personal model. It is, however, somewhat cleaner than in 1961.

    Thanks for stirring some wonderful memories again, Brian.

    The other Brian.
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  6. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    Brian D....."if only....."is what i thought about BB CROYDONs nameplate when that was put up for auction.I recall sitting on me dads shoulders and touching the plate back in 1950something or other.. dunno why THAT memory stayed with me but it did...Nameplate/badge went for £35000 Hammer Price so that slipped through the net...! ..........The auction IS offering a BB RAF badge in the lot following on from 66 mention of an association with the nameplate but not everyone reads Lot descriptions ...........etc...etc........Always enjoy the images from your photo archives and ...of course....the loco builds..........Regards Brian W
  7. Max Midnight

    Max Midnight Active Member

    Brian, have you tried using a micro flame instead of an iron?
    The benefits are:
    a) If you hand wanders this is an advantage as its a good idea to keep the flame moving.
    b) The solder goes where you want it (most of the time).
    c) Use less solder.
    d) Less cleaning up.
    e) Reduces your bill for Scotch (not guaranteed).

    The downside:

    a) Getting a small piece of solder to stay where you want it (thus comment e) above if medicinal Scotch is required)
    b) Potential to set fire to the house if you forget to extinguish the flame.
  8. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Hi Max.

    Actually I'd not thought about using the microtorch but it's worth a go. I've used it now and again to strip stuff down or remove vagrant parts and it's certainly a helpful tool to have around. Your final comment rings alarm bells, though.

    The flame is almost invisible. Recently I used the torch for something, put it down and noticed a burning smell after a while. And I had, if course, failed to turn it off. Fortunately it was facing a plastered wall, so after cooling with copious amounts of water, which removed the burned painted surface I could patch paint the area so you'd not even know. I've told no-one about this as it's so stupid, so you won't let anyone know, will you?

    Actually I've started to think that the Scotch could have something to do with the shaking hands. I've put myself on a diet.......

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  9. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    is that less water with it Brian?:cool::cool::cool:


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  10. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    No, Mike. Diluting the water with more Scotch.

    That might be the wrong way round but it suits me.....

  11. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Cook's torches, and other microflame devices do at least make a noise - if you're working in bright light, the flame can be pretty much invisible.

    Not painless however...

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  12. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    and me Brian, I had a good chota of Aberlour last night when I came in from a visit to the Club:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:


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  13. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Mike, I suspect that you don’t mean “chota”, as that means “small”.

    “Peg” is a measure.

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  14. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    Hi Simon,

    Major Benjy (played to perfection by Denis Lill) one of the main characters of Mapp & Lucia just refers to it as Chota, he being ex Indian Army and always helping himself. so drops the Peg, but always pours trebles - at least:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: hence my 'reference'

    Stay safe and well


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  15. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Ah, ok!

    “Chota bharti” is a small plastic elephant toy, blu-tak’ed to the dashboard of our Landrover, a memento of our days in Pune, where our driver had a Ganesha in a similar location.


    (don’t know if it’s dialect or simply wrong, but google translate suggests “haathee” rather than bharti). Either way, the elephant is small. HO at a guess. :)
  16. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    A little update.

    Having had my small crisis of confidence about using the provided frames the process of cutting out the slots, fitting the hornguides, bending the frames to shape and inserting the spacers, finally fitting bearings and wheels produced this.


    It runs as smoothly and easily as anything else I've ever built.

    The body was then fitted thus:

    IMG_20200806_140108580.jpg IMG_20200806_140204392.jpg

    The adjustment screws are rather high in the hornguides so will be screwed down a bit further when final adjustments for ride height take place.

    Overall I consider that process a success.

    Last edited: 8 August 2020
  17. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    This is starting to feel like I'm making a sows ear out of a silk purse. Not quite two steps forward and three back, but let me explain.

    Firstly, though, Heather reported during her build that she was missing a sprue for the balance weight on the water scoop assembly and the associated brake adjuster and crank on the same sprue.


    Having checked out all the castings kindly located and sent to me by Laurie I find that I also have only one of these sprues. It looks as though there could be a miscount in the packing list, but as the model is not in production any more it's really quite a minor issue. I've asked Laurie for another sprue and await his reply. If he doesn't have one I'll have to try fabricating something, and there is an etch for the balance weight and (although not yet checked) probably for the crank. I'm not so sure about the adjuster.

    The issue for me now is partially of my own making, as I have no tender drawings but decided to press on anyway. It looks as though I've fitted the tender/cab footplate too low. This was quite deliberate after due consideration of the alternatives.

    For some reason I have two sets of tender instructions. Neither is dated so I have no guide on which is the most recent but you'll note that the drawing of the tender front below looks to have been compromised in that the left hand front is partially blank. (That rather artistic banana tender top in the top drawing is down to a curve in the paper......:)) Actually that is singularly unhelpful in that it fails to show the location of the levers although admittedly they are shown on the drawings below, even if the wrong way round.


    Looking at the second set of instructions the tender front looks like this - somewhat more complete.


    I therefore assumed, in the full knowledge of what assumption is mother of ....... that the more complete drawing is the most up to date one.

    So, going to the page regarding the tender front build from the instructions I interpreted as being most recent I found this. Note parts 28 which were duly installed.


    The "earlier" instructions for this assembly gave me this.


    As can be seen, parts 28A and 28B are significantly deeper. Furthermore, as part 28 has no half etched bend line for the return it seemed reasonable to suppose that the original part 28 which had the line was the one to use. So I did so.

    Then the castings arrived and I started to check them against the tender build so far and, woe is me.

    So not only are the plates part 32 not required but the tender footplate is significantly too low. Below are two photos of the tender front with the vertical spacer tucked in against the tender side so that the discrepancy can easily be seen.

    IMG_20200807_153432199.jpg IMG_20200807_153514217.jpg

    Now, I believe my current interpretation is correct. Fortunately I've not soldered the footplate assembly to the tender body and separating the two will enable me to get in to the space below the tender/cab footplate and do some negative soldering. Those levers and their fixings will have to come off too and refitting them in a higher position may be a bit fraught. However I'm now sufficiently insecure about this to need some confirmation as a result of which I'm now going to build up the loco chassis/footplate to see how the levels work out. Fortunately I have drawings of the loco so any doubts regarding the build of the loco should be resolvable.

    Here's the origami which is the footplate. It looks a bit too complicated for its own good but I'm starting to get my head around the bending process. Also bear in mind my earlier comments about the complexity of some of the tender etches and my later comments about how well they went together so I have more confidence about the bending of this than I might otherwise. Page 3 of Heather's build gives me considerable confidence!


    Whether I'll get as far as this today I'm uncertain, but updates will most certainly follow.

  18. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Brian, I am pleased my (currently stalled) journey is proving of use to you.

    Like you, I discovered the tender front floor needed to be higher. I found this with reference to the Wild Swan book and studying various photos. Don’t forget, the Stanier tenders were matched to locos not designed by Stanier. The Fowler cab remained essentially unchanged during the later rebuilds of the class, and the tenders appear to have been modified to suit.
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  19. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Adding a little emphasis to Heather's point - the height of the tender footplate should be matched to that of the loco footplate (not the running plate, so forming that won't help!), in all cases.

    So, pick the brackets that are the correct height, knowing you may have to modify the castings.

    Time to hit the books and drawings to find out what the footplate height is...

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  20. Len Cattley

    Len Cattley Western Thunderer

    Hi Brian, the tender drawing is on the Black 5 books on the Wild Swan, that should help you, I think that tender foot-plate should be higher on the Royal Scot (but I could be wrong). Also the Union link casting is to long. Have you got the Wild Swan Rebuilt Scot as that would help you?

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