Cameras for close ups?

jhockuk

Western Thunderer
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but does any one have any experience of which DSLR lenses are good for model railway photography?

I have got a Nikon D5000 and whilst I understand to get good close ups I will need macro lens there is a vast array available, I have been told I don't need anything to mad and something like a Sigma 50mm f2.8 would do a great job, any one have knowledge in the field?

James
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Depth of field is controlled by the aperture (f stop), you need to reduce that (make the number bigger) to increase your depth of field.

The f stop is usually quoted as that's the widest the aperture will open and is a sign of the lens's benchmark or quality, most photographers are after getting more light into the body so bigger apertures are preferred, I have a Canon EF70-300 IS USM L with an f4.0/5.6 and it costs over £1200, if I wanted F2.8 in that size lens then your looking at £3000 or more.

So a low f stop number is a good indication of a lenses quality, for 50mm then f1.2 would be really good but again your looking at over £1000 for the lens alone.

However all lenses will give good depth of field, just that better quality ones wont require as much light to achieve the same result.

As you increase the f stop you make the aperture smaller, if you leave the ASA rating the same (image grain) then to compensate the shutter speed must decrease (get longer). so lets presume a 100ASA setting to get the best image quality, a photo of a loco in studio lights may well have a setting of 1:125th at f2.8 but that will give a very small depth of field, typically you'd be looking at f11 or f14 for a half decent depth of field, however to compensate and return all things to equilibrium you will need to either adjust the ASA (bad as the grain will show and you will have grainy image quality) or the shutter speed (good as you retain quality, bad as the lower the shutter speed the longer it takes to take the picture). At F11 I reckon shutter speed might be as low as 1/30th, maybe even 1/4 second.

Most modern digital cameras can increase ASA to 400 or even 600 with little loss in image quality, far better than films of the day, but for model photography you want as much light as you can get and probably a tripod, other than that it's all experimental.

My understanding of Macros are more for small objects in very close detail, ie insects or plant life, model locos might be a little large for Macro lenses but I'm sure Chris of this parish will be along to advise you better on them and how he does his work.

HTH.
 
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SteveO

Guest
Depth of field is your main concern - and in the case of lenses, that means high f numbers. I'm not familiar with 35mm lenses as we use medium format in the studio. You'll also need a lot of light, particularly with small apertures (high f numbers) and a tripod with remote shutter release.

I'm pretty sure Adrian (Buckjumper) could point you in the right direction regarding 35mm lenses.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Tamron's later 90mm macro is a good lens for the Nikon system, I got good results when I borrowed a mate's set-up for some model photography a few years ago.

Most of the shots you'll have seen me post here will have been taken with Canon EOS 40D and 7D and the wonderfull (and very affordable) Canon EF-S 60mm f2.8 Macro. To get good depth of field I tend to use a couple of anglepoise lamps and fill in with a Metz flashgun. With the Canon lens and some care I only rarely need to go beyond about f8 anyway.

If I need to use a smaller aperture I tend to go for the 'more time' rather than 'more light' option, use a tripod and trigger the camera using the on-camera timer with 2second delay.

Hope that helps a little!

Steph
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Lots of good advice above. Steve brought my name up but I'm really a bit of a bodger who's had a lot of luck (and a lot of deleted photos!).

I use just the standard 28-80mm lens on my (now rather old) Canon 300D, even for close-up stuff. I do have a tele-macro lens, nothing expensive, just a Tamron 70-300mm but rarely use it for for photographing models. I don't have a decent lighting rig (see, a bodger) and find all my best results are in the sun with high, hazy cloud cover. Bit of a pain at times like this when it's cold, wet and foggy!

However, a decent tripod and remote trigger are invaluable. Lots of examples on the Buckjumper link in my sig.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I've been beaten to it with a better explanation!

Not really, I've clearly got more spare time to waste than you and making the best of my last day off work on the club LOL. But we are in accord....is that a first?...lots of light and a low f stop with tripod and remote trigger, as everyone else has confirmed, lens is down to personal choice, most of my work is for larger objects, sometimes a looooong way away, don't do much small work, which is why the quality suffers when I do LOL.
 
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SteveO

Guest
But we are in accord....is that a first?...
Surely not! We're county buddies after all (well, I was Suffolk County and you're Suffolk Coastal, but near enough).

Most of our shots are product photography so we've got a medium format digital, but all the basic techniques apply - aperture, time and light - and get the best lens you can afford. I've never owned a 35mm so don't really know anything specific about bodies, lenses and backs but if you're in the market for a 645 I can help!
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Surely not! We're county buddies after all (well, I was Suffolk County and you're Suffolk Coastal, but near enough).

Most of our shots are product photography so we've got a medium format digital, but all the basic techniques apply - aperture, time and light - and get the best lens you can afford. I've never owned a 35mm so don't really know anything specific about bodies, lenses and backs but if you're in the market for a 645 I can help!
Concur heartily about the 'glass', an excellent camera 'Canon Mk1' with a kit lens will easily be out shone by a bog standard 40D and an L lens, every single time.

Two things are critical in digital photography, the Matrix and the glass, I opted for the 40D for one single fact alone, even though the Matrix was old, it was well developed and had (at the current time) the best developed Matrix that minimised fringing in the Canon range, by a significant margin (negating Mk1s), couple that with top of the range pro lenses (L range) and you have a powerful and relatively cheap combo. Considering 99.9% of my photography is in the high fringe risk zone a Matrix that copes with this is paramount, for those who's main target is scenes where fringing is nullified or absent, then other options are available. The good thing with good glass is that it never depreciates, you can upgrade the body later but the glass will still fit, I am looking at a Mk1 but SWMBO isn't impressed and to be fair, other than the better ASA rating and grain fidelity and full screen Matrix, the extra 300% cost will probably not produce images 300% better.
 

jhockuk

Western Thunderer
Thanks guys, that's a lot to think about. I was looking at Sigma 50mm f2.8, they retail at about £300 and second about £200.

I will have to have a think about it, the best thing I can do is just have a crack with the lenses I have and see what kind of results I can get, the biggest thing I struggle with is light, so I will have to see what I can do about that.

That and learn to use the settings on the camera to try and get some decent results.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Thanks guys, that's a lot to think about. I was looking at Sigma 50mm f2.8, they retail at about £300 and second about £200.

I will have to have a think about it, the best thing I can do is just have a crack with the lenses I have and see what kind of results I can get, the biggest thing I struggle with is light, so I will have to see what I can do about that.

That and learn to use the settings on the camera to try and get some decent results.

The D5000 is an acceptable DSLR camera, I suspect that even with the stock lens you'll get acceptable results, keep the ISO (ASA) low, whack up the lighting levels and just drop the aperture settings and fire away. I've no idea what the detailed settings are on the D5000 but a quick look at the top dial shows M A S & P so I'm going to guess that's
Manual (you set aperture and shutter)
Aperture Priority (you set aperture and shutter speed is corrected automatically....this is the setting you need)
Shutter Priority (you set the shutter speed and aperture is adjusted automatically)
Programmed (camera will set best aperture and shutter settings it thinks from the current exposure meter reading)

Default ISO (ASA) rating on the D5000 is 200 to 3200 (push to 100 -6400), that's pretty acceptable range, for really crisp then 100 of even 50 is very good. The lower the number the crisper the image so set yours to 200, maybe 400 or 600 at worst, then adjust your aperture to say f8 or f11 and let the camera work out the rest. I can hand hold down to about 1/16th (and successfully got down to 1/4, more luck than skill!) but usually fire off three/five shots as it depends on your heart rate and environment etc, usually one or two will be ok, but rule of thumb is hand hold above 1/125th, below that, use a tripod or even one of those little beanie bags you can get, a pile of books with the camera propped up will suffice as well, but always use the timer trigger as well, usually about 2 seconds for blur free images.
 
S

SteveO

Guest
James, what Mick has just described above will definitely get you on your way to producing very good results. If can't get everything in focus from the instructions above then move back slightly (6-12 inches at a time I'd guess with your lens) until you do.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
for 50mm then f1.2 would be really good

It's a great lens but you do need to be very careful with the DOF wide open... Had many a duff shot wide open! Though mostly beause there is a software glitch with the lens and it focuses too short, hence rendering the part you need to be in focus, soft!

JB.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Default ISO (ASA) rating on the D5000 is 200 to 3200 (push to 100 -6400), that's pretty acceptable range, for really crisp then 100 of even 50 is very good.
Cheers the penny has just dropped why my photo's haven't been that sharp recently. Got the tripod, remote shutter, small aperture etc. but forgot about the ISO rating - it was still on Auto so the camera was "helpfully" bumping up the ISO rating to minimise the shutter speed. Just tried it with ISO locked to 100 and the photo is much better.:headbang: What a numptie!!
 

Wagonman

Western Thunderer
A lot of good advice. The thing about using a prime macro lens is that it would generally have better glass than a kit zoom - ie sharper, better corrected and almost certainly a smaller minimum aperture. The danger is that at f32 say you might start to get diffraction degrading the image.

A tripod or some other support is important as you are going to need long exposures. The alternative in these digital days is to take a series of shots at different points of focus and stitch them all together in Helicon or Photoshop. I think that is what Chris Nevard does sometimes.

Like SteveO, but a generation earlier, most of my professional work was on medium or large format...
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
I'm a mere bodger when it comes to photography - but here's a tip that fellow under-bodgers might use if they read this thread.
I guess most SLR's (as used by the OP) have a cable release capability.
I only have a compact (no cable release) - but got one with a manual mode (Canon A540) enabling the use of long exposures with small apertures.
I have got fairly good results (example here) - to avoid camera shake (still possible on a tripod) when using a slow shutter speed, I use the self timer (2 second option on mine).

Andy
 
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