Dapol 08

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Thanks Mike, I was also interested to find out the spec of the 08 and it's DCC user guide to the light functions.

Seen elsewhere that the model was due to have a 22 pin connection but it was changed, hence why some stuff doesn't work unless the Zimo decoder is used

Do you happen to know what DCC connection is in the model if you don't want to be coerced into buying the recommended Zimo decoders? I say decoders as people may want the loco with DCC lights and without sound.

However this may all be academic as without the MTC 21 pin connector the MX644D is ruled out leaving the MX645 and MX645R if you want sound and lights. The latter two having 4 function outputs wired in the harness/plug and a further 6 function outputs available as solder pads. Unless Dapol are going for the 22 pin PluX connector for the MX645P22.

I wonder which Zimo decoder they will use as the OEM installed version.
 

FiftyFourA

Western Thunderer
Hi All,

I received my model last Friday, ran it in on DC on a rolling road and took it to Newcastle exhibition where it ran over the weekend.

Operation is faultless on DC but I need to have a look at the lights; in 'shunting mode' they need to be red/white front and back with no change for direction. Maybe I need to read the instructions, such as they are!

As far as the body etc is concerned, it looks very accurate and does capture the 'feel' of the loco but I have a couple or so niggles:-

1. the brackets for the front ladders - I know that some had these left on when the ladders were removed, and I understand why, from a manufacturing point of view, Dapol left them on, but, as several people commented, it looks like they fell of or were customer add-ons. Would it not have been better (considering how long ago they were removed) to have them as a seperate item?

2. the drive arm for the speedo off the left hand coupling rod is not there although the clamps are. It is a simple matter to fabricate one but I think it is an opportunity missed; maybe it could have been an optional customer add on like Hornby etc do in OO for vac pipes etc?

3. no wiper blades.

Would I buy a green one to complete the set for my 1960s layout? Do I need one?

Well, yes, no and to hell with it; I hope the bank manager is understanding.

Peter
 

FiftyFourA

Western Thunderer
Unfortunately the loco was taken off me to run on a layout while I helped on my mates stand. You wouldn't think it belonged to me :rant:.

Anyway, just settled with a bottle of the red stuff so leaving modelling till tomorrow. Will try to take photos with the top off and post them tomorrow unless Richard gets there first.

Peter
 

Temeraire

Western Thunderer
My understanding is it won't work the lighting correctly with a 21 pin MTC compliant decoder but will with a non-MTC 21 pin decoder such as the Zimo Mx644D.

My un-numbered TOPS blue version is going straight back to the supplier as it come equipped with a built-in "clunk" and lurch on every rotation
of the wheels!

Assuming my supplier can find a replacement anyone know of a source of windscreen wipers for them?
 

Ian G

Western Thunderer
Try Peter Clark, or MMP for there detailing kit for the brass works version, maybe DJP will bring a detailing kit out for this shunter.

Ian G
 

FiftyFourA

Western Thunderer
Hi Guys,

Took the top off this morning so here's what it looks like inside ...

100_0949.JPG

And here is the underside of the top with the speaker in place.

100_0953.JPG

I think it should have a proper enclosure so I am considering mounting it vertically, pointing out of the front through the grill.

I spoke to Dapol at Telford and they told me it was designed for the Zimo 21 pin chip so I got a MX644D from Digitrains along with the 31mm speaker. I might use this speaker to replace the knackered one in my Bachman 08 and get a different one for this one. Good job Wakefield is only next weekend! More expense!

As for the wiper blades, I am going to drop Laurie a line at JLTRT to see if they do ones for their 08, otherwise its bendy wire.

One word of warning though for anyone with one of these models, be careful of the bonnet handrails; they bend when getting the model in/out of the box (I am going to modify the box like I do with Heljan so the loco sits vertically and can be removed using a cloth slung undreneath), they are EXACTLY where your hands go to pick up the model (how do I know that? ....) and they are right next to the lift off panel to get at the circuit board.

This is not a go at Dapol, just a warning to take care.

Peter
 

43179

Western Thunderer
Ask Laurie nicely , maybe JLTRT can supply the wipers from the 08 kit separately. Theres a few other areas where the dapol 08 could be transformed with some nice jltrt bits , so maybe ask reeely nicely if laurie can email you a list of the 08 castings...

Jon
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I think it should have a proper enclosure so I am considering mounting it vertically, pointing out of the front through the grill.

It depends on how many acoustic paths there are out of the underside of the body and what path lengths there are but you could find that the body is providing a perfectly good enclosure with the speaker pointing out of the roof as the model stands at the moment.

Jim
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
It depends on how many acoustic paths there are out of the underside of the body and what path lengths there are but you could find that the body is providing a perfectly good enclosure with the speaker pointing out of the roof as the model stands at the moment.
This is an interesting comment, please educate me by explaining what you mean by the body (possibly) being a good enclosure "as is".

Graham
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
This is an interesting comment, please educate me by explaining what you mean by the body (possibly) being a good enclosure "as is".

Graham,

How long have you got? :) The subject is quite a complex one and a lot of people charge a lot of money to solve the problems. :) I only learned the basics in my sound career and let the speaker professionals supply me with suitable products.

But the basic fact of life of loudspeaker operation is that as much sound comes out of the back of a speaker cone as from the front and the sound from the back can be out of phase with the sound from the front. If the sound from the back finds a way round to the front, the out of phase pressure waves will tend to cancel out the sound pressure waves from the front. In reality this means that an non-baffled speaker will give a poor apparent frequency response, particularly at the bass end since lower frequency sound is omni-directional and gets round to the front much easier that more directi0nal higher frequencies.

People have tried to design enclosures which attempted to avoid this - in effect to provide an infinite baffle to sound from the rear. I do remember in the 1960s when changing from coal fires to other forms of heating that a pretty good infinite baffle could be provided by fitting an airtight baffle over a redundant fireplace and putting a speaker in this baffle. The sound from the rear went up the chimney and never found its way round to the front of the speaker - at all frequencies. A colleague of mine living in the first floor of a tenement flat in Glasgow did this using a quite cheap, small speaker and the results were amazing.

But for other speaker enclosures, designers either provided some form of complex routing of the rearward sound to affect the wavelengths and/or absorb unwanted frequencies such that it augmented the sound from the front. Other designers provided enclosures which were effectively a sealed box around the back of the speaker to stop anything getting out. A problem with a sealed enclosure is that the pressure in the enclosure can affect the operation of the speaker cone - usually attenuating the output and particularly the bass frequencies. So a lot of design effo rt has to go into the treatment of the enclosure so that any attentuation is controlled to balance the frequency response of the speaker.

I look at some of the speakers with enclosures that are supplied for DCC these days and I don't see much evidence of sophisticated design. I just took an enclosure off a Loksound speaker the other day and it was just an airtight cover to attenuate sound waves from the back but, with not much volume of air, there would probably be a fair bit of back pressure on the cone. It will improve the output of the bare speaker but maybe not a lot.

In the Dapol 08, the speaker appears to be mounted with the cone facing out through the top of the hood and the rear facing into the body of the locomotive, giving a form of baffle. If the body is effectively sealed from the outside when it is in place on the chassis, then the relatively large volume of air in the body would not provide the same attenuation as a much smaller enclosure on the back of the speaker. Even if there are a fair number of apertures between the body and the chassis, there may still be sufficient attenuation of sound coming out via them that the sound from the speaker is still good. If a speaker and enclosure is fitted to the Dapol 08 it would be interesting to see if it was an improvement on the supplied bare speaker.

In the case of the Loksound speaker I referred to above, it will be fitted in the hood of an S scale SW1 switcher and I intend to build a new baffle to go in the hood of the loco which will more than double the capacity of the enclosure and should improve the output of it. Effectively, the top 1/4 of the length of the hood will be the enclosure and the speaker will point down over the front bogie.

Sorry for the length of the message but it is a pretty big subject and I have barely skimmed the surface with what experience I got over the years. My interest was sound recording and editing, both analogue and digital, and I got good speakers from people who knew what they were doing. :)

Jim.
 

FiftyFourA

Western Thunderer
While I digest the above, I have the parts list from JLTRT and was going to post as an attachment but how do I do it? Can I do it?

The items come on a sprue and you have to buy the whole sprue, starting at about £2.50 plus p&p. Contact Laurie for details on mail.justliketherealthing.co.uk.

Peter
 

westernfan

Western Thunderer
Mine arrived today and apart from one of the sand boxes falling off and a grab rail requiring attention the loco ran very well . All was sorted with a drop of glue .
Re positioning of the speaker I was thinking of using the double cube unit and positioning at the front behind the radiator . but then the sound is directed mainly out to the front of the loco . Where as the moulding for the speaker enclosure positions the sound around the loco , evenly spreading the effect ?

Re Your post Jim G . I remember My late uncles early hi fi ,home made valve amps with light bulbs glowing as resisters etc, and the speaker enclosures had egg boxes used in their construction. Early sixties style.

wf
 
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