1/32 Dark Side, Big Scale

[mickoo]

Well Pat and his cat turned up with some goodies today .

A USAT GP38-2 in Santa Fe colors and a Aristocraft SD45 in unmarked format. Plans are for both to be upgraded and detailed, each has its pluses and minuses but nothing insurmountable...I may come to regret that statement.

I've not run either yet but hopefully no issues will be found there, nor stripped them down and looked inside, however a couple of initial inspections reveal some minor issues, SD45 no handrails? and the GP38-2 have all been stuck on with blobby glue, looks like super glue or something and some post have snapped off at the sill beam, being as they were all coming off anyway that's no great shakes but it would have been nice to have retained them for later, having said that, there are plans to make new Nickle Silver ones for the SD45 so might as well add the GP38 into the mix as well. The GP38 has terribly undersized wheels and I'm currently in discussions with NSWL for replacement wheels, sadly not to 176 (ultra scale) treads as they do not support that range anymore....not for these locos.

Both locos will require a lot of work under the chassis, neither has any form of sill beam over the bogies, a consequence of have those blessed great power truck bricks having to swing through stupid tight train set curves, I'll be limited to 10-12' radius so should be ok with added sill beams and details....watch this space! .

I'd planned on virtually destroying the SD45, its not a top loco on my list, and using the chassis to make a different unique loco, preferably with Flexicoil trucks but with a little work they can be converted to HTC which opens the range right up to SD60, Flexis limit you to SD9 - SD40/45 (not Dash 2). Two candidates were F45 and SD24. However, the modeling on the SD45 is very nice and its a shame to destroy it, so a change of plan and it'll be come a very grubby SP SD45 with 'Elephant ears', that's the plan anyway, the fans will have to go, the USAT ones are much finer detailed and the fans spin, the Aristo SD45 is showing its age and the fan covers are not as detailed and I cannot even see a fan inside (USAT has spinning fans, not checked to see if motorised as yet).

The GP38 had half a chance of being bullied into a GP60 but that'd mean to much work on the side doors etc so it'll remain a GP38-2 with a Roots blown 645 engine , the SD45 will be a turbo 645, so the best two sound tracks one can have. An idea for the GP is the handfull of snow clearance fitted ones that SP had, later, and still used by UP, roof mounted icicle cutters, rotary wipers and window cages along with intake shrouds make them quite unique.

I'll run this thread to show warts and all like the 1:32 class 40 (stored pending some revelation in some modelling issues) thread.

Anyway, the pictures.



Larger ones can be found here in a new folder dedicated to the reworking of these two models and other possible 1:29 scale projects.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32755955@N05/sets/72157630121726274/

Finally, also in the post two complete Aristocraft SD45 bogies, these will be used for a scratch build project, ideas from the above are a possibility, SD9, SD24, F45 (HTC) or SD60 (Flexi), maybe even a SD40-2 (Flexi) jury still out on that project.

Kindest

 

[Pugsley]

I like the sound of the plan for the SD45!

 

[Pugsley]

I didn't realise that SD45's had been fitted with the elephant ears as well - I became aware of them when I discovered the GP40X. I've got an unfinished 'blue box' conversion of one of those around here somewhere.

 

[mickoo]

Yes, both GP40X and SD45 had them, only ten fitted to SD45 though, not sure on GP40X models. A few locos seem to have the intake cowl, SP SD45, GP38-2 and Alaska GP had them too.

The Tunnel motors were EMDs official answer to the Elephant ears I believe, SP and D&RGW buying a fair few, in an effort to get trains across the mountains on their respective lines, where a multitude of tunnels and snow sheds made life pretty rough for trailing units breathing and cooling.

Tunnel motors use a longer chassis (same as a SD40-2) and that was a consideration for this model, a SD45T-2 appears only need a new radiator section and extended frame, mind a snoot SD40T-2 in grubby Rio Grande colors or SP colors would look a sight, but both require HTC trucks. so perhaps a future acquisition of a USAT SD40-2 might be in order for that project.

Kindest

 

[ceejaydee]

You certainly won't have any problems seeing the parts that you are going to modify Mick!

 

[mickoo]

I'm glad you posted the pics of the Elephant ears... 'cos it'd have been a bit embarrassing to have to ask what the heck you're on about... Obviously the Soo Line didn't use 'em....

Is it too much to ask to photo the locos next to something in O or HO, just to get a good sense of the size difference?

As a disciple of the dark side I'd have thought you'd have know about Elephant ears LOL, mind your Easterners don't have any hills so no issues with breathing .

I did a compo shot when I got the Class 66



But I will do some more US topical shots tomorrow, weather pending, I prefer to do it outside as they're so big you cannot get far enough away to get them effectively in without distortion and loss of field depth (plus my work bench is no where near as clear as when the Class 66 photos were shot), and skylight makes for much better lighting, I've got an Athern HO SP AC4400 and a SF C44-9W so will pose with them.

They are certainly big, the SD45 weighs a ton, it's a two hand pick up job, a bit heavier than the Class 66 and the GP38-2 is much lighter, suspect some changes from factory in either or both of these in the weight dept. The weight does add another factor if designing a layout, your sub structure is going to have to be pretty sturdy (heavy) to support several of these, and that manifests another dimension to layout planning, transportation. Being as I plan a depot or switching layout then I'll probably strip a lot of that weight out, I'm also considering de-motoring one bogie, certainly on the GP38-2 with its battleship turret drive motors and their huge appetite for Amps.

The SD45 motors and associated gear boxs are beauties and could easily be used for other projects, replaced by fine scale wheels, new axles and perhaps roller bearings, actually might look at replacement roller bearings all round, but that aspect will be explored fully in the two spare bogies I have coming.

If you want something really big then you can't beat these, I was letting my CC cool down and missed an Aristocraft GP40 on Ebay for £128, that's silly money for the amount of model you get.

Kindest

 

[Steph Dale]

Yes, both GP40X and SD45 had them, only ten fitted to SD45 though, not sure on GP40X models. A few locos seem to have the intake cowl, SP SD45, GP38-2 and Alaska GP had them too.

The Tunnel motors were EMDs official answer to the Elephant ears I believe, SP and D&RGW buying a fair few, in an effort to get trains across the mountains on their respective lines, where a multitude of tunnels and snow sheds made life pretty rough for trailing units breathing and cooling.

Tunnel motors use a longer chassis (same as a SD40-2) and that was a consideration for this model, a SD45T-2 appears only need a new radiator section and extended frame, mind a snoot SD40T-2 in grubby Rio Grande colors or SP colors would look a sight, but both require HTC trucks. so perhaps a future acquisition of a USAT SD40-2 might be in order for that project.

Kindest

IIRC the SP only had 6 GP40x. I've got a pair in H0 and they'd be a nightmare to model with out the RPP/Athearn r-t-r shell/loco.

Go for the Elephant ears though. And the SP five-light package too.

More good SP info here: http://espee.railfan.net/espee.html

Steph

 

[mickoo]

You certainly won't have any problems seeing the parts that you are going to modify Mick!

Have to confess that is one of the big factors for going to a larger scale, I've gone from near perfect vision to not being able to read a newspaper in 4 years, they say the steady loss will level out in a couple of years, bleedin well hope so or will soon end up with Benny Hill specs. There's also family Glycoma (I seem to be missing it at the moment) on my fathers side so I'm not going to push my eyes hard any more with smaller scales.

The downside is, the bigger they are, the more detail you seem to have to put on to bring them up to scratch. I never thought I'd even be considering photo etch door catches etc.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

IIRC the SP only had 6 GP40x. I've got a pair in H0 and they'd be a nightmare to model with out the RPP/Athearn r-t-r shell/loco.

Go for the Elephant ears though. And the SP five-light package too.

More good SP info here: http://espee.railfan.net/espee.html

Steph

I've a good article in Diesel Era on the GP40X somewhere I think, will check tomorrow and see if it details any more about the SP versions, I know UP and Southern (high nose) had them, but only SP went for the Elephant ears.

I did see a few weeks back whilst researching G or O US stock that someone did white metal cast SP Mars light and other sundries, not sure if they were 1:32 or 1:29, mind who's going to notice that difference on a headlight?.

USAT seem to do a very good spares service and will research getting some of their better detailed rad fans and replace the rather clunky Aristo SD45 ones, again further research and tidying up of bookmarks and revisiting sites is in order.

Good site, not browsed all the way through yet, also got a couple of US books on SP motive power, 87/88 and 90's, some good shots in there and details of classes and numbers etc.

Found another couple of good sites, both with excellent high res images, the only downside to the Espee site .

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRa.../SD24/20767256_K7v5bH#!i=1647153783&k=HZ3Jf9w

Don't go here if, A, you don't like UP. B, don't like Utah railways. C, a spare day or two to look at and collect all the images LOL, I've just linked one page on the SD24 to give you an idea of the quality of some of the images, hover the cursor over the image and then in the pop up window on the right select original.

The other is D&RGW http://www.drgw.net/info/Diesel again a nice selection of larger images, especially the older F7s etc.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

Dunno as I'd class the Soo Line as "Eastern"... didn't go any further east than Chicago, but you're right about the lack of hills - AFAIK the only Soo units to have dynamic brakes were those that they inherited from other roads....

Fair point, I tend to mentally class that area as Eastern, reality is its probably around a 5-600 miles to the East coast.

I had the fortune to go to the US for a software company making a simulator for 1:1 railways but was spinning off (eventually aborted) a sub section for a PC train sim, up near Durrand somewhere, it was a whole collection of specialists in their fields, 3D modellers (that was me along with four others), sound specialists, dynamics and motion, render artists and a real train driver. He told me about 'dark territory', I'd never heard the term before, basically areas where there is no radio coverage, they use radios a lot to give permission for trains to enter sections etc. Out west some dark territory's were huge, 30, even 50 miles long, a section could be 20-30 miles long and if hilly (slow moving train) you were out of contact for hours, its the vastness and often remoteness of US railroads that us Europeans forget, not just backwaters but class 1 as well.

Kindest

 

[Simon Dunkley]

BTW, these are 1:29 scale (10.5mm to the foot) running on 45mm track, which works out at about 4' 3.38" gauge.
One thing they ain't is 1:32 - they are 10% bigger!

 

[JimG]

BTW, these are 1:29 scale (10.5mm to the foot) running on 45mm track, which works out at about 4' 3.38" gauge.
One thing they ain't is 1:32 - they are 10% bigger!

Anyone know why the manufacturers decided to use a larger scale for 45mm track? It's not as if there was a lack of space inside 1:32 scale models of your average US locomotives.

Jim.

 

[mickoo]

BTW, these are 1:29 scale (10.5mm to the foot) running on 45mm track, which works out at about 4' 3.38" gauge.
One thing they ain't is 1:32 - they are 10% bigger!

Unfortunately the forum does not have a 1:29 icon tag so I stuck to 1:32, I can't edit the OP title so if its misleading or causing distress then perhaps one of the moderators can look at that for me?.

I am considering regauging to correct 1:29 scale, that does limit me to my own track and not able to run at clubs or anywhere other than here. Being as I'm going to probably have to make my own Finescale track then it makes no difference what cauge it is and may as well be correct gauge.

The narrow wheels do present errors on the bogies, which are 1:29 but the 1:32 wheels mean the moulded brake shoes are no where near the treads. One other option is to junk the shells, trim the chassis to correct 1:32, narrow the bogies and build all new 1:32 for the rest. The only part that remains 1:29 is the bogie wheel base.

I have two complete spare SD45 bogies coming, these will be guinea pigs for a few things I want to try out, either correct scale wheels or rescaled bogies, reductions in drag, roller bearings and trimming of the motor shell to allow correct sill beams to be placed on the loco chassis.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

Anyone know why the manufacturers decided to use a larger scale for 45mm track? It's not as if there was a lack of space inside 1:32 scale models of your average US locomotives.

Jim.

Good point, why did Hornby et al go for 1:72 on 1:87 track. I think the same applies here and is grandfather rights from some old US manufacturer, Lionel?.

Kindest

 

[Pugsley]

mind a snoot SD40T-2 in grubby Rio Grande colors or SP colors would look a sight

Now you're talking! A DRGW SD40T-2 is hard to beat.

 

[Pugsley]

IIRC the SP only had 6 GP40x. I've got a pair in H0 and they'd be a nightmare to model with out the RPP/Athearn r-t-r shell/loco.

The SP had 4 GP40X, and you're right, it was a nightmare to try and model them without the later Athearn shell, hence my 'blue box' conversion being unfinished - I think I started it in 1995!

 

[Steve Cook]

Proper bit of big modelling there Mick Stick me down as a fan of the SD45 proposal too - had a quick surf today because I've been distracted by thoughts of something similar propelling a boxcar down my line

 

[Steph Dale]

I've a good article in Diesel Era on the GP40X somewhere I think, will check tomorrow and see if it details any more about the SP versions, I know UP and Southern (high nose) had them, but only SP went for the Elephant ears.

Kindest

Mick,

Can you tell me what issue, please? I might see if I can get hold of a back issue as the article could be handy!

Steph

 

[mickoo]

Mick,

Can you tell me what issue, please? I might see if I can get hold of a back issue as the article could be handy!

Steph

Steph, well, I thought I had!. Had a look through this evening and I don't have the full collection (picking them up on Ebay bit by bit as I go along) but one has an article on the Southern variant, Vol 11 #2, the only other reference I've found in my collection is a small bit in Vol 5 #1 which is about the GP50 but has a small section on the GP40X. I only have 23 pictures (BNSF-2, SP-15, UP-6) in my collection off the web over the years, your welcome to those if you think it'd help.

Kindest

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Anyone know why the manufacturers decided to use a larger scale for 45mm track? It's not as if there was a lack of space inside 1:32 scale models of your average US locomotives.

Jim.

Yeah. If you have rather wide wheel treads, with G1MRA "standard" tyres, you can't fit the wheels between the bogie (OK, truck) mouldings. If the mouldings are over-scale thickness for rigidity, then you have greater problems.
Solution, increase the scale by about 10%. Unlike 00, this isn't about fitting a British body on a German-made H0 chassis, but about track standards being more "robust" than they need to be, at least from the perspective of a modeller running in the garden. If used as toys, with the track put down on the grass, then maybe coarser wheels are a better idea.

In many ways this is a shame: I would have no issues with coarser than strictly necessary wheels if the scale of the rest of it was correct, especially at those prices.

4mm:1 foot is 14% over-scale for H0 track, by the way, so it is not quite as bad an adjustment, but one of the benefits of 1:32 (and, indeed, 1:64) is the ease of calculation provided you use imperial measurements right through, so 1:29 is a bit of a headache!

Mick, I realised that the forum doesn't have a 1:29 tag, and this doesn't bother me. Just wanted folks to know that these are not Gauge 1 models in terms of scale, just in terms of track gauge - indeed, the manufacturer refers to them as "G scale" (which I always took to be LGB, i.e. 1:22.5 or so).