7mm David Andrews Patriot.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by MerseyMan, 19 February 2016.

  1. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

    I've been meaning to do a workbench thread for awhile now but I never seem to get around to actually doing it. This is my first attempt at a proper "Etched" kit so any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Don't be shy to point out any areas I have missed or can be improved. Anyway, onto the kit. This is an "All Nickle Silver" Patriot from the David Andrews range. I started with the tender which will hopefully give me a feel for the method of construction. I used Carrs "No clean Solder Cream". At the time I never thought about taking photographs of the construction so all I have is the finished product. I didn't rate the large whitemetal casting for the bunker/toolbox front so I made a replacement up from a strip of Nickle Silver. The Axleboxes/Spring assembly are from Laurie Griffin with the underkeep/Horn ties made from Scrap Etch and a couple of Scale hardware bolts. Also from Laurie are the Brake Standards and Lamp brackets. The buffers are from MOK and the coupling is from HobbyHorse. It was cleaned up with a glass fibre brush and a good scrub in Ciff. There's still a few things to add but I have now moved onto the Loco.

    Tender2.jpg Tender1.jpg
    Last edited: 19 February 2016
  2. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

    Although the actual locomotive is progressing very slowy, with a few hours here and there I've started making up the smaller detailing parts. I noticed the kit doesn't include the clasps for the cylinder drain taps so I made a couple up using some scrap etch and a couple of scale hardware's dummy bolts. As I'm modelling a early BR Pat, the pipes still need to be cut to length.


    I wasn't happy with the "cast" brass pipes so I tried to find some one who supplies 0.6mm copper tube for the cylinder drain tap pipework. I found one company but at nearly £200 a metre I decided to give it a miss. Giving up on the Copper tube idea, I ordered some 0.8mm copper wire but being solid, they still didn't look right. So with afew choice words, and a couple of burnt fingers I managed to drill them out using a 0.4mm drill. It doesn't run the full length but it still gives the impression it's a pipe rather than wire (or at least I hope it does).

    Drain Pipes 1.jpg
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  3. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad

    Good stuff, the pipes and brackets are very impressive. A bit more cleaning up of the cusp on the brackets would make them perfect!

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  4. parky

    parky Western Thunderer

    That's dedication drilling those wires
    The tender in nickel silver looks different after all the others in brass and have to agree solder paste is the way to go
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  5. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

    Thanks guys. The standard is so high on this forum, I'm absolutely delighted you like it.

    The backhead is also coming along with most of the main fittings fitted. I've pretty much replaced everything here with parts from Hobby Horse. I was so impressed with Nick's gauge glasses on his superb T9 build that I couldn't help but try and duplicate his work. So I cut out the brass middle bit and replaced it with 2x2 mm acrylic rod. I had terrible trouble trying to glue it all together so as expected it's nowhere near as neat as Nicks. I wanted to make everything removable which will hopefully aid painting in the future, so all the fittings have been threaded. 12 ba nuts hold everything in place on the rear. I made the regulator move by making a brass spacer that fits around the 14ba screw. This is so when the screw is tightened, it tightens against the spacer allowing movement rather that tightening on the regulator. The brass screw head will be replaced with something more prototypical once everything else is finished. I knocked my flux over by accident over so I'm waiting for some more to arrive before I can do anymore.


  6. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

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  7. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer


    Picks jaw up, isn't Nickle Silver a dream to work with :thumbs:

    For the sight glass there's no need to glue, drill a small 0.8 mm (or other suitable diameter) hole down the middle, I know you can do this...witness drain cock drain pipes ;) then insert 0.8 mm nickle silver rod down the middle, the silver effect will simulate the water in the tube, especially when you add the striped backing card behind the glass. Leave the rod sticking out of the top and bottom and drill holes in the fittings above and below and then glue, Loctite 480 will hold that all together a treat and being black will cap the top and bottom of the glass off nicely.

    Your still gluing the bits but the rod will hold it all together better with the added bonus of simulating the water in the glass.

    Will have to have a look at this soldering cream, are you using a RSU with the solder cream or an iron, I never seem to get decent result with solder creams and irons.

    All the best

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  8. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad

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  9. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

    Hi Mickoo, Many thanks for your comments. If the Gauge glasses fall to pieces before I come to remove them for painting, I shall certainly proceed with your method. With regards to your question, the only Iron I have is a 50W Antex Iron. It does have the option to be temperature controlled but I have had it on max ever since I started.

    Dikitriki, I must confess It was your fantastic work that inspired me to go for the Patriot in the first place. I'm sorry that I didn't expand on the chassis a little more in my first post only I didn't want to duplicate your efforts. I used miniature ball races instead of the brass bearings supplied in the kit and also used Ragstones beautiful water scoop kit. On the prototype, the brake rigging is thicker in between the brake hangers than the bit that passes through them, so to beef it up a little, I used some threaded bar passed through some brass tube. This will be "Trimmed to lenhgt" in due course. It also gives the added advantage of it being fully removable should I ever wish to do so. I still need to add the cross member's plus few other things but it's not far off finished.


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  10. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    I'm giving up!

  11. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    That's not how I see things. Rather, the bar has been reset somewhat higher.
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  12. SimonT

    SimonT Western Thunderer

    Gentlemen and Heather,
    thank you, I just love your work and the inspiration you provide. Even those who claim to lose their mojo inspire.

    Are the nuts on the brake gear 12 or 14BA? I have just used 14BA and a feeling that I may have under clubbed it. After seeing the tender I am now certain to do something I have been thinking of since I built a gearbox with ball races (thanks Steph). Brass axleboxes seem to wear dreadfully and on the 8750 I am going to drill them out and fit some ball races.
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  13. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Impressive tidy work - you seem to be setting a new standard Mr Merseyman! Have you got a proper name by the way?

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  14. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Well, I've got some more ball races of you want them but it's not a route I'd necessarily choose to go down.
    For a start it's tricky to get meaningful sideplay on a ball race.
  15. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Steph, Simon,

    Likewise I've also been considering ball races on locos, but as Steph notes, side play is an issue, the right way would be races in some sort of horn block but then that's making things even more clunky and complex with modifications to frames etc.


    Nice attention to detail, there is a train of thought that if you can't see it when it's on the track, then don't model it, I'm glad you don't subscribe to that :thumbs: I especially like the full fat cast brake blocks, really don't like etched ones myself.

    I must try this solder cream you speak of, cleanliness is now my biggest bug bear, working in Nickle Silver helps a lot, reducing the amount of solder required and making sure things are a nice fit helps too. But still the curse of the little green spots of corrosion blight the odd crevice here and there.

    I used to use Viakal as a cleaning agent but it turned brass locos near orange and tarnishes NS with a brown tint as well. I don't really know why it bothers me so much because if it's a good clean surface for painting then eventually it won't be seen.

    All the best

    Mick D
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  16. SimonT

    SimonT Western Thunderer

    as it is a reasonably close coupled 0-6-0 running on reasonably generous curves I think it worth the try. The big 2-8-0 tanks will need a different approach.

    I gave up Viakal ages ago because of the metal etching. I now use Ecover general purpose cleaner with good results.

    hijack over!
    BR Tony likes this.
  17. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Bearing in mind the improvement to the look of the water gauge glasses on the back head which I first saw with Nick's locos and subsequently with others I'll probably go for this in the future. However, I can't find 2mm square acrylic rod listed anywhere. The smallest I can find is 3mm. Can someone point me in the right direction?

  18. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

    Simon T, I couldn't make my mind up on the size of the nuts as I thought the 14ba nuts looked too small, and the 12ba ones look too big, so I went for M.1.0 nuts instead. In the end this was the only size of suitable threaded bar I could find anyway.

    Dibateg, Many thanks for your comments. Although to be fair, I’ve only copied the fine work that has been posted in previous threads. If it wasn’t yourself, Nick, Dikitriki, Heather and the many others that have posted on here, I would never have found the inspiration to do anything like this. So Thank you all very much.

    Mickoo, Thanks again for your comments. Yes I just love Nickel Silver. It’s just a lovely material to work with. I’m absolutely hopeless with brass.

    Brian, I found this company who supply 2mmx2mm acrylic rod. It’s just a shame they charge so much for P&P.

    Kind regards
    Phil Jones
    Last edited: 20 February 2016
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  19. Cliff Williams

    Cliff Williams Western Thunderer

    Beautiful work - very very impressed. Well done.

    Can you point me in the direction of the threaded bar supplier - or do you cut the thread yourself?
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  20. MerseyMan

    MerseyMan Active Member

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