EMKDE Presflo - Backdating to Lot 2769

[Overseer]

I recently succumbed to purchasing one of the EMKDE Presflo kits. As it comes it is based on one of the later batches but I want to build it as one of the first batch of Presflo, Diagram 1/272 Lot 2769 built at Shildon in 1954. It will also be sprung and Scale7. While I am keen to build it, I don't have the time right now so thought I should start a thread to pick some more knowledgeable brains before starting on the kit.

Largely based on the photographs on Paul Bartlett's website, the following are the observed differences between Lot 2769 and later lots. (It seems that the second lot, Lot 2863 built at Shildon in 1956 was the same or very similar to Lot 2769.)

Lot 2769 differences:-
Single vacuum brake cylinder
Long hand brake levers
Uncompensated brake linkages
Shorter, parallel buffers
End braces have a fabricated T at the outer end instead of folded angle
Ladder stops short of top, no extra handrails at roof level
Corner underframe steps not fabricated from angles

I would be grateful if anyone can provide information on any other differences. More information on the brakes and underframe would also be helpful. Ian G's detail photos in another thread on WT were very useful for working out how the later compensated brake linkage was put together, then I realised the earlier Presflo brakes were simpler but haven't seen any close photos.

So any help welcome.

 

[hrmspaul]

What period are you modelling? They were, of course, introduced with oil not roller bearings.

Paul

 

[Overseer]

What period are you modelling? They were, of course, introduced with oil not roller bearings.

Paul

The intention is 1955-6. I don't think I have seen a photo without roller bearings apart from your photos of condemned wagons. When were roller bearings introduced on Presflos?

 

[Overseer]

I think I have found the answer to the roller bearing introduction date thanks to google and the other place, and thanks to Paul yet again (he provided the answer in a RMWeb thread in January this year). 1958 it seems to be. So it looks like I will have to use oil bearings for my model. Now I need to confirm they were the same larger standard split pan type as used when the wagons were being sent for scrapping.

This proves it really is better to work from a good contemporary photograph to get the details right. I am glad I haven't started building the kit yet.

Are there any more traps for the less than well informed Presflo modellers, such as myself?

 

[hrmspaul]

As the diagram 272 says, they are 10x5 in. The only ones I have seen photos of are one piece (not like the scrappers on my site). They were being altered to roller bearings quite quickly - I have a photo of an early one in 1960 with roller bearings (looks like it has had its first full general repair)

I hope you are using the recently revised EMKDE kit, the early one has the wrong roof profile.

Paul

 

[Overseer]

Thanks Paul. Yes I have the current version of the kit and was aware of the roof profile issue with the original version. I hope to use most of the kit but will be adding some detail and replacing the brake gear, at least.

 

[AJC]

There is a set of official pictures of what might even be the prototype Presflo (which wasn't even vac' fitted at the time the pictures were taken) which get wheeled out in the press occasionally. I think I saw them in an early issue of British Railways Illustrated (there's an index here: http://www.irwellpress.com/acatalog/BRITISH_RAILWAYS_ILLUSTRATED.html) which shows some useful detail and, very clearly, plate front axleboxes, the sort of thing under this 21 tonner -thanks as usual to Paul for providing the photos.

Adam

 

[Overseer]

Thanks Adam. I am familiar with the 10 x 5 inch one piece axleboxes but don't think I have any drawings of them to make sure they end up right size. I have copies of quite a few drawings of pre-grouping axleboxes but very little information on the various BR axleboxes. Does anyone know where to find readily available drawings of BR axleboxes?

 

[Overseer]

I managed to grab an hour or two over the weekend and couldn't resist the temptation to start building the Presflo.

I am not planning a step by step build of this wagon but here is the first part put together. I have done a bit more since the photo, adding the strips around the top of the hopper and starting on the vertical ribs. So far I am impressed with how it goes together. The not so simple hopper shape is made of two parts and does fit together very well. The etching artwork looks hand drawn and the etches are not in the MMP class, with oversize location slots for the ribs, but so far it matches the prototype dimensions exactly.

I have noticed a few more differences between the various batches but now also wonder when the 'rocket shaped' solebar brackets were added as they are not shown on the diagram. Views of the roof details are also proving to be elusive.

 

[hrmspaul]

Roof details varied, but these may help http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/presflotunnel/eea0945d and several others in this collection.

The early batch don't seem to have any support at all, the 1960 photo of 042 I mentioned with roller bearings has a straight sided stanchion. It looks as though the early ones were retrofitted with the rockets during the 1960s. I think for your early period they should be omitted (the ICI SALTS didn't have any supports originally).

Paul

 

[Overseer]

Roof details varied, but these may help http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/presflotunnel/eea0945d and several others in this collection.

The early batch don't seem to have any support at all, the 1960 photo of 042 I mentioned with roller bearings has a straight sided stanchion. It looks as though the early ones were retrofitted with the rockets during the 1960s. I think for your early period they should be omitted (the ICI SALTS didn't have any supports originally).

Paul

Thanks Paul. There must be some mid fifties publicity photos somewhere. I think the Railway Magazine would have had an article when they were new so I will try and track down an index and hopefully article, before I finish the model.

Edit: just realised I hadn't found the Tunnel Cement folder in the private owner section previously, very useful. They do raise another small point. Was the central longitudinal rib (visible on the wagons with removed walkways) present on all the Presfos? It may not seem much but it would change the side view when backlit.

 

[hrmspaul]

Thanks Paul. There must be some mid fifties publicity photos somewhere. I think the Railway Magazine would have had an article when they were new so I will try and track down an index and hopefully article, before I finish the model.

Possibly, but there was a tendency to use the prototype 888000 and that started off lower and then got a higher top - so it had an overlap around the body. It was, therefore, unique. This was all very experimental technology so there were changes all along.

Paul

 

[Overseer]

Construction has progressed a little while the search for evidence has staggered along fitfully. While putting some books back in the bookcase I noticed a Presflo in a photo. Not the first place I would have looked but Oxfordshire Railways in Old Photographs - A Second Selection has a photograph on page 36 by D. Hall dated 28 April 1956 with a Presflo behind the tender of 4977 Watcombe Hall. Now the image is not large but it confirms a couple of the points discussed previously. This is a crop of a small part of the image.


Note the 10 x 5 inch one piece oil axleboxes and the complete lack of the 'rocket' shaped supports connecting to the solebar. The horizontal pipe (vacuum pipe?) along the top of the solebar is clearly visible but I can't see the vertical pipe to the roof which should be on the same side. Was this an addition as well?

Some in progress shots of the model should follow soon.

 

[Overseer]

The kit is progressing slowly, mainly due to lack of time.


The oversized slots have meant that I have used a lot more solder than I usually would, using it as a filler, so there has been far more cleaning up than normal. I haven't bent the tabs to hold the ribs in place as I think this could twist the ribs and make it harder to achieve straight lines. The end ribs were a bit of work to get to match the end profile.

I eventually found the BR promotional photos on the NRM website, cunningly hidden by misspelling Presflo, in the Liverpool Street collection. As Paul warned they mainly show the first prototype wagon which is different to all the others and was looking a bit home made by the time it had been extended and altered. Why they didn't use one of the brand new Presflos, parts of which appear in the photos, is beyond me. Anyway some bits of B888010 are visible and provide some useful information on the early condition of the first lot of Presflos. I have cropped the useful bits out.

Note the lack of verticals and 'rockets' to the solebar, no vertical pipe to the roof, and smaller horizontal ribs to the ends.

The model will be finished as B888010 as it appears in these photos. I didn't think I knew much about Presflo wagons when I started this and now I think there is even more I don't know.

 

[AJC]

Despite the holes, that's a nice tidy job. The publicity photos are rather nice examples of their type as well; the CMC Leyland Comet gives a wonderfully mid-fifties feel to them.

Adam

 

[BrushType4]

Did you progress this kit?

 

[Overseer]

Did you progress this kit?

There have been further skirmishes but the battle is yet to be won. It now has Exactoscale W irons, and ABS axleboxes and springs. The horizontal ribs are on one side at least. I will take it out of its box and take some photos tomorrow. It is a challenging kit to build to capture the look of the prototype, not helped by trying to backdate it.

 

[Overseer]

As promised, with special lighting to emphasise the solder. It lives in one of two gold gift boxes that I use for storing kits needing the right frame of mind to work on. Again, I was trying to fill the huge gaps in the etched ribs, not completely successfully so Milliput will be required, and there has been a fair bit of filing to reduce the horizontal ribs to closer to scale size. I think I will make replacement ribs for the other side and ends. The end ribs were simpler on the first lot, extra angles were added later. Buffers are not soldered in yet. Not sure where the roof has got to.


And for some context-


The Presflo kit could be built as intended without too much trouble. Altering it to the first lot in original condition and reducing some of the chunkiness is more challenging.