Finescale - of a sort?!

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Peter Insole, 26 December 2016.

  1. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    We used to picnic beside old railway lines - good for wild flowers apparently. More than once my Mum said "If you think that lump of rusty metal is coming in the car you've another think coming" Usually (well, always, as she was outnumbered three to one!) this was met with "and if you think we've lugged this half a mile to leave it here ...."

  2. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    IMG_8367x1024.jpg Hello Pete
    I am a brand new member on this site and the first thread I begin to follow is one that is very close to my own heart. Your large scale model of Mouse is of course one of the modified Horwich locos. I am working on a small live steam model of Dot which is in the narrow gauge museum in Wales. I purchased from the NRM the drawings that are published in Mark Smither's book "18 inch gauge railways. Having those drawings printed out to their full size at 3 inches to the foot is such a joy. I am temporarily on hold with the model because of the toll on my sanity working at trying to build my model to visually exactly represent the real loco, and at the same time deal with all the aspects of not being able to scale molecules a huge problem for live steam models.

    I am only at page three of your thread but just had to touch base because watching you make the parts for the springs etc brought back all the challenges of making the suspension for this locomotive. I will have to deal with the enormous dome!

    I would like to share a picture of my project with you on your thread so here goes
  3. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    Ok so the picture went to the front of the post instead of after my text?
  4. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Don’t worry, Michael. These things happen from time to time. Eventually you learn how to edit posts, but in this case I don’t think it matters.

    Welcome to WT, by the way! :thumbs:
  5. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Very nice Michael.

    I hope to have a similar set of skills one day.

  6. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    Thank you Heather and JB I am familiar with a few other forums but each has its own quirks regarding posting and adding pictures.

  7. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Welcome Michael!

    That looks like a superb job so far. Please, please could we see some more photo's of the wee beastie?

    Thank you for posting, I am suffering withdrawal symptoms from working on my own version. I am getting regular complaints at the lack of progress from at least one little visitor too!

    AdeMoore likes this.
  8. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    Thank you Pete,
    I have been stopping and starting work on this "wee beastie" as you put it for some time now with the typical hiccups that one encounters along the way. it is very interesting seeing the ways in which you made some of the small parts. those cylinder blocks gave me a lot to think about without using castings, but building them up from raw brass and bronze. I am using tiny tapered pins that are from the watchmaking world. in retrospect it might have been better to have started at a larger gauge. so it goes .

    there we go this is the weightshaft lever with the tiny pins holding the arms.

    this is where I am presently taking a break. the valve link rods and the associated straight link Allen valve gear.


    I dod not want to hijack your thread so I could start one about this loco and the present model which is a 'Quickie" right! plstic model of anothe little workhorse called Pet from Crewe which is also in the NRM it is O gaugeand battery .

  9. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Michael, I don't regard your pics as a hijack at all - they are about the same subject, and an inspiration too!

    I had been wondering how best to represent a visible part of the Allen valve gear hanging below the weigh-shaft when life got in the way! The rather restricted space left in front of the motor and gearbox, and which bits, and how to make them move had me foxed.

    I am particularly looking forward to seeing a "Pet" thread when you are ready...?

    AdeMoore likes this.
  10. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    Me too, as an LNWR enthusiast, but I must say that Peter's "toy" version is just so inspiring and I have followed it from day one with great fascination. Would really love to see it progressed to the point of being run ... please!

  11. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Thank you both Mikes!

    I'm afraid that even before the effects of Covid-19, a combination of circumstances, both within and beyond my control has left me with a bank balance in a rather parlous condition!

    A feeble excuse, I know only too well!

    Spurred on by the above images of the chassis and motion, and having just reached a point with an ongoing job that will allow me to take a desperately brief breather, and one that usefully demands a freshly cleared worktop, I don't think I can resist any longer?!

    Here goes then, for better or worse..!

    AdeMoore, GrahamMc, 3 LINK and 7 others like this.
  12. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    So what are you doing with the stuff you are clearing out? curious minds need to know.

  13. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    I suspect he's storing it all under the arches here :D:D

    Waltham Bridge.JPG
    Last edited: 30 March 2020
  14. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Oooph! I felt that one! I thoroughly deserved it too!

    Everything in it's place. The trouble is; there are now so many places that I forget where anything is, and seem to spend more and more time just looking for stuff!

    Which is more or less what happened this weekend, although I did eventually manage to get a couple of bits under way.

    The first job was to finish off a small task that I had set myself a while ago:

    Revising the motor arrangement caused the loss of the rear pair of driving wheel dummy springs. They had been specially made to fit neatly atop the original frames of the now redundant gear box. With little desire to completely remake them, I had looked at the possibility of a salvage operation instead:

    SAM_xy1450.JPG SAM_xy1452.JPG SAM_xy1457.JPG
    Sawing bit by bit through the remains of the solid ribs retained most of the overall shape, at least for the parts that would show anyway.

    The remaining lumps on the left in the latter image would require later reprofiling to fit round the new motor. An altogether unhappy compromise, but hopefully preferable to an empty space twixt the frames.

    This weekend the engine would need to be partially dismantled, so the opportunity was taken to mark out and make the final cut to fit:

    SAM_xy2601.JPG SAM_xy2602.JPG SAM_xy2603.JPG

    Yes, quite so, but there is a tad more wriggle room than is apparent in the photo!

    The next task was to fill in a load of old 'oles and drill a whole lot of new ones to get the main frames a little bit nearer to completion.

    Not such a pretty chore for a photo report though?

  15. Tom Insole

    Tom Insole Western Thunderer

    Perfectly timed. Allthough the weather doesn't seem to be on the same page it is now British Spring time! ;)
    Peter Insole likes this.
  16. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    I thought I could cope with "Lockdown", "Self isolation", "Shielding" and all that. I even imagined that I was becoming old and wise enough not to end up falling down the same damned rabbit holes again..?!

    Please can I apologise to all those that I have let down, or given good cause for grief. Not just recently, but from well before then as well?

    Neither rattling phobias nor failing physical health are sufficient excuse, but when considering how much enforced extra time has been available I really am quite disappointed at the rather slow progress achieved with anything, let alone this otherwise foolish, but completely absorbing project!

    Anyway, there are at least some images and stories to catch up with...


    Here are a few more "holes" that (some tediously) needed filling in... While others might provide a bit more fun and games:

    Rattling also where the running plates!

    Despite great care having been taken with their fit, daylight was on occasion still visible 'tween plate and frame. Worried that the plates were a also a little prone, I considered that the model would definitely require a minimum of six small brackets, three per side, applied for additional strength and rigidity...

    However, wiggly rivetted angle there should be, so would of course have there to be !


    This was the only way I could see to achieve it at the time though !

    Strips of paper held and marked over the frames to form templates gave some assurance that I was cutting in more or less in the right place.


    Nearly, but not quite there yet with the bends on this first one...

    Better the second...?


    My last remaining usable oddments of either 15 x 20mm and 20 x 20mm angle were just a tad over size, so would not fit behind the steel expansion joints.

    A little nibble in the ally would do the trick - and hopefully remain unobserved in the shadows !


    Short sections cut from the 20 x 20 might have just fitted after shaping up to fill the curvy gaps? I know, but as previously mentioned, my stock was getting low...

    So I resorted to slicing some ply instead:


    The slightly peculiar geometry came as quite a surprise, and I must confess that it took me far too long to assure myself that it was indeed perfectly correct before committing myself to that lower cut ?!


    After an 'ellava lotr' drillin' n' fillin' for a load more pretend rivets that are yet another mixture of round head, countersunk, machine and wood screws, I finally completed one side...

    SAM_xy2679.JPG SAM_xy2681.JPG

    All the right sizes, but not necessarily in the right order...!

    A really good slosh of thick and gooey black - the more coats the merrier - would do quite nicely ?!

    Incidently, I recently discovered a genuine, 1913 dated, Horwich Works loco paint schedule which stated that; Frames, wheels, smokeboxes and chimneys were to be finished with one coat of "Drop Ivory", and two coats "Japan Black".

    The latter is a bitumen based, corrosion and heat resistant finish that I guess was a sort of old fashion version of "Hammerite"?

    ... Tin hat on...!

    A peculiar mix of matt and gloss Humbrol will suffice; when I eventually manage to get hold of some of the large tins at the proper RRP., rather than what appear to be Covid excuse/supply and demand prices being charged recently !!

    ... Tin hat still firmly on and trench dug...!

    Will I ever learn...?

    SAM_xy2685.JPG SAM_xy2686.JPG

    Then after a quick swipe of mostly matt to prime and check:

    Never did get that bend quite right under there, but remarkably no daylight shows through and even better still; the entire structure is pretty much bombproof !!

  17. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    It’s great to see you back Peter. :thumbs:

    There’s a YouTube channel I follow that documents a couple of lunatics in Shropshire shoehorning the mechanical parts of a fast Japanese car into the crumbling shell of an Austin Mini. Surprisingly, they are both superb engineers, and the work they’ve done is utterly absorbing and fascinating. If something needs fabricating, such as a bracket, they switch to CAD: Cardboard Aided Design.

    It seems it works for you as well as it does for them! I find it useful as well.

    This whole lockdown malarkey affects us all very differently, so don’t worry about it. You do what you must do.
    AdeMoore, simond, adrian and 6 others like this.
  18. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Thank you so much for your kind reply Heather.

    I'll try and carry on doing my very worstest best then...!

    AdeMoore and Pencarrow like this.
  19. michael mott

    michael mott Western Thunderer

    Yessir I was beginning to wonder what was going on.... seems that all is well on the ruminating front, that progress is happenin'

    It is looking good Peter.

  20. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    Yeaaah! Another Project Binky groupie! :thumbs: "make the noise". A right pair of loons and brilliant engineering. For those that haven't seen it these 2 lunatics are fitting a Toyota GT4 4WD running gear (with turbo) into a Mini - within the original lines to make the ultimate Mini. Not content with fitting the 4WD running gear also fitting electric windows, air conditioning, electrically operating front flip front :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:. I think the only original items from the Mini is the roof, bonnet and boot lid!! However the youTube series is hugely entertaining, they also play homage to "Police Squad!" in their videos.
    Pencarrow, Rob Pulham, 3 LINK and 3 others like this.