Finescale - of a sort?!

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Good thought Col! It was only that although the cladding is fairly corroded and tatty in places, it still looks rather too new around some vulnerable edges and joints to be the original? There were also some traces of the green on the bottom of the later fitted saddle tank.

I wonder if there was someone at Horwich that decided it would be nice to see Wren in an approximation of it's Beyer Peacock livery, but then some higher authority got a bit windy when they saw the result and insisted that it's black paint be re-applied to restore order and propriety?!

Or maybe they just let some unsupervised apprentices loose on it...?!

Pete.
 

Lancastrian

Western Thunderer
Locomotives of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway were originally painted dark green with ornate brass work and copper capped chimneys. Lining was black and white. In 1876 the dark green was changed to a light green and goods engines were painted plain black. 1878 saw the goods locomotives also appearing in light green. This livery was discontinued from 1883 when all locomotives were painted black. Lining was red and white for passenger locomotives and, if present, red only for goods locomotives.

Ian
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks for that clarification of the LYR liveries and dates Ian. It confirms that, in theory, the loco's should have been "goods engine" black from the outset:-

1887, "Dot", "Robin" and "Wren", built by Beyer Peacock, to original design; well tanks only.

1891, "Wasp" and "Fly" built by LYR at Horwich Works, to original design; well tanks only

1899, "Mouse" and "Midget" .... ditto...., but with additional saddle tanks. (the inference here is that the previous were converted at similar time?)

1901, "Bee", also built at Horwich, in final form with saddle tanks.

There is however one solitary manufacturer's photograph that has come to light showing what purports to be "Robin" in "works grey". It shows a very elaborate panelled and lined livery style - very similar to Beyer Peacock's livery applied to their own version of "Dot" (now preserved at Tywyn).

This leads to the possibility that as the first three delivered to Horwich might have been effectively regarded as "plant and machinery", or what we would now call "internal user"?, they were supplied in BP's house colours. This was common practice for companies supplying loco's to industry. It is perhaps worthy of note that the three engines built for the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway (Yeo, Exe and Taw) were delivered in standard Manning Wardle livery, and ran for several years in that condition!

I wonder if there would have been extra charges included in the build contract for applying unique liveries for each customer?

Our only remote hope of an answer would be if any of the Horwich paint shop records have survived?

This is all rather academic anyway (though very enjoyable) as the paint currently visible on Wren at the NRM appears to be just underneath it's "restored" finish!

Pete.
 
Last edited:

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Suzie popped in briefly at Love Lane last Wednesday, and helpfully suggested that Wren was painted in "Invisible Green"!

I rather think she could be in line for the prize... ...but then again?

SAM_x3053c.JPG

I have blown up one of the previously posted images, and it shows a lovely green dribble running down over a streak of proper black!

Whatever the jury verdict, that image also reveals that beneath the still extant BR muck, the inside of the frames were painted RED. So guess which tin of Humbrol I'll be opening before the boiler is mounted...?!

It will be an exercise to try and replicate the heavy concretion of oil, ash and brake dust, but I will draw the line at all the museum era fluff, visible bottom left on the above image. That will happen quite naturally in my workshop part of the room anyway...!

Still a way to go on the underframes, and progress has slowed a bit:

SAM_x3181.JPG SAM_x3180.JPG

It has taken a while to work out where all the rivet holes etc., in the running plates have got to go!

It is starting to look more like a Meccano set by the day!

There are quite a few fittings at the footplate end that cannot be accurately located until I have sourced the material for the backhead, so I have decided that it would be best to mark out all those remaining holes with the plates in situ.

I was getting a bit fed up looking at the beast with six temporary bolts dangling over the rear headstock, and set myself to a tidy up!

Here is a problem...

SAM_x3075.JPG

When I decided to shorten the footplate on the model (and not to include the handrail and stanchions) right back at the beginning of the project, I had spaced out and pre-drilled the three holes each side on the headstock angle.

Although it would have been better to keep the spacing correct, and simply add another rivet in place of the corner stanchion, it doesn't really matter!

Now having seen the real thing, it is apparent that most of the countersunk rivets are anything but flush, as one might expect them to be. This has turned out to be fortuitous:

I would have preferred to use countersunk machine screws, but both the angle and the footplate are of slightly under-scale thickness, leaving insufficient metal to align, and even less thread for the slim securing nuts underneath! The solution was six regular button heads, filed down to flats.

They should have been shaped slightly round really, but it was tough enough going with a file - for me at least!

SAM_x3185.JPG

The button-heads have small radii at the base. This gave me the level to file down to, and also ensures that there will be no sharp edges to snag tender digits!

It was a right old game trying to "soften" the thread ends after they were trimmed, they were so short that gripping them was a nightmare!

I don't have any means of cutting a thread in a piece of scrap, and not quite enough thread was revealed if they were held captive with a nut in a plain hole!

Then I had an idea:

SAM_x3182.JPG

Not one was even slightly bruised, nor did any ping off to heaven knows where?...!

But was it nonetheless still an "inappropriate use of pliers", and therefore should it be added to a growing list of my crimes now...?

Pete.
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
But was it nonetheless still an "inappropriate use of pliers", and therefore should it be added to a growing list of my crimes now...?

A crime maybe, but certainly forgivable and certainly the sort of crime I commit all the time.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Do the bolt ends have to be flush with the nut, if not, just wind the nut on and file flush, said bolt end will then be recessed on the engine when fitted.

Failing that use a washer / washers as spacers until the right thickness is achieved for rounding the bolt end off.

MD
 
Last edited:

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick!

Trust me to spend hours searching for, and eventually finding some sort of solution to a problem that was never a problem in the first place...!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
It's a wee while since I last posted but I've been a bit distracted lately. Quite early this morning (Sunday) I fancied getting on. The job was going to be a noisy, knocking, neighbour annoying one, so I had to wait until I was sure that they were all well and truly awake before I started...!

Meanwhile, here is a brief catch-up:

I am almost done with drilling 'oles for the time being!

SAM_x3221.JPG SAM_x3222.JPG

The last lot were for these fore and aft boiler mounting brackets. The angles will be "riveted" to the smokebox and backhead flanges, allowing the whole shebang to be lifted off those studs projecting through the running plates.

SAM_x3223.JPG

I had naturally assumed that the joint in the running plate, shown above by the two rows of six rivets above the slidebars, were for manufacturing convenience. Observing the prototype at York I was surprised to find that the rearward ones were in fact coach bolts, so I presume that their holes were either keyed or square beneath their plain, domed heads?

That brings me to another tale:

Now I do know that drill bits never make perfect round holes - indeed, that is what a broach is for! Trouble is; I'm rather ashamed to admit that I have not got one, so I have been using a round file instead to roughly regularise them. No doubt that's why it is taking so long to do...?!

When it came to drilling those joint holes, I just couldn't work out how to adequately clamp the steel to my drill press bed plate, and I was deeply concerned that as the sheet was quite thin, the bit might "snatch", and thus ruin the work? I rather foolishly decided to hand drill instead, reasoning that I could better "feel" the torque as the drilling progressed. Not so bad except for one important detail; my old drill has a somewhat worn bearing!

I managed to make some lovely triangular holes, so was going to have even more fun with the files!

The really stupid thing though was choosing a bit that was already a tad too big for the M5 machine screws that I was going to use...!

...Oh well, I would just have to tighten the rattling things up and hope for the best?

We have had some 'orribly 'ot weather lately, and realising that there were long steel strips attached firmly to a wooden framework I thought; "Eck, I bet those running plates are going to buckle a bit in this 'eat?" They had indeed expanded quite a bit and the joints had closed right up. The other day I had another look, and the joints were open again...

...Ah - Hah, of course, yer daft old 'a'path! That is why Beyer Peacock put coach bolts in it instead of rivets innit?! It is an absolutely necessary expansion gap!

My awfully inadvertent error had turned out not to be one at all. It beggars belief how I keep getting away with it so often? It cannot last surely?

Now finally to today's bish-bashing job:

I have had an idea that I could really do with a six inch one of these...

SAM_x3226.JPG SAM_x3227.JPG

Although this one was a smidge over size and not really the right shape, with a bit of panel beating I could end up with a nice neat smokebox door?

I haven't ever been brave enough to try the dark art, and at least one "friend" had wished me " the best of British luck with that aluminium chum!"

I suppose if it doesn't work, I could always cut my losses and flog it as a bit of fake Newlyn ware?

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Collectors of Arts and Crafts can breathe a sigh of relief; there will be no dimply metal deceptions to muddy the market from me this time?

It doesn't bear too close scrutiny, but I'm quite pleased, so I'm keeping it!

SAM_x3228.JPG

It might not be too apparent in the previous post, but the hard plastic knob was not only recessed into the lid, but at some time had copped a whack and was wonky as well. After removing same, I practised with the hammer, using yet another little block of that trusty offcut Oak, slightly shaped and gripped in the vice as a perfect anvil!

Inspired by the result, I felt a tiny bit more confident, enough to brave the tricky rim?

Having first cut the indented ring away and offering the lid up to the drawing, I could get a better idea of how much resizing and shaping would be needed.

The smokebox front is joined to the barrel with an internal angle ring, the proud round rivet heads run very close to the door rim. No room to allow the door to be even slightly oversize. There was no alternative, I had to reduce the door by about three sixteenths of an inch all round to fit!

SAM_x3231.JPG

As the sawdust in the above picture attests, I reshaped the anvil, and then proceeded to drive everyone nuts by tap, tap, tapping for the rest of the morning - and into the afternoon!

When the diameter and curve at last matched the drawing, I then bolted the door, rim uppermost, to the block and filed away the uneven
and beaten rim to level. I didn't dare try cutting it for fear of distorting the hard won edge!

I received vociferous complaints that the filing produced a ringing "cymbal" effect, even worse than the knocking, and so the good folks baled out, leaving me to get on with it.

No cuppas for me today...!

SAM_x3235.JPG SAM_x3237.JPG

It does look rather funny temporarily bolted to the plastic plug, but I could not resist studying it in situ!

It feels as if making the dart will be a walk in the park by comparison?!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Having talked about the tools I haven't got, there is yet another useful bit of kit absent in the inventory:

No whizzy, cutting wheels things...!

But I have got one of these....:

SAM_x3238.JPG

Because what I want is some of this....:

SAM_x3239.JPG

Which will be just right for....:

SAM_x3241.JPG

Now I've put it back, I hope no one notices that the fridge hasn't got any metal on the sides anymore.........!!

Pete.
 
Top