7mm Finney7 51XX

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Well this is a first for me, a thread in the WR Section of WT. I'm usually confined to Area 51 :D

For the upcoming re-release of some of the Martin Finney GWR range I volunteered myself to construct one of his 51XX Large Prairie tanks. I do like the look of these big tank engines and after the M7 i'm really looking forward to this. So firstly to a little research; I have no knowledge of the prototype, it's provence or working life so I have relied heavily on @SimonT for this and he has been great help. He has sent me a number of photo's and from them I have chosen 6144 as me chosen loco. The period will be early 60's BR, probably plain green I think. Simon also sign posted me to @Brian Daniels Fliker thread 61xx Details and this has been brilliant to work from.

So to the kit, unfortunately I can't post a 'what's in the box' as this kit is constructed from spare etch and castings cobbled together from the little stock we have. However I can promise that the etches, in the main and castings are of the usual expected Finney top quality. I say in the main as we are currently working on upgrades to the frames of the loco. There are a number of etched parts on the frames, cylinder/slide bar assembly etc that make up to a lovely representation of the prototype but are of their time. We feel that todays manufacturing techniques can better represent these parts in a cast form. So with that in mind the frames of the loco are being upgraded to bring them up to date and mirror the quality of the body.

Ok so i've built it up, I only hope I can do the kit justice with my build....

Because of the ongoing casting upgrade work I've made a start on the body. Firstly you're taken down the route of the boiler. It's a while since I've rolled a taper but the way the kit is designed makes this straight forward really. The firebox top is made on a N/S lamination, which is hefty.
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The front is this depth to allow you to round the corners afterwards. I've yet to tackle this.
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The brass cladding is rolled in a taper around the former with a handy nick in the etch to align it centrally. Next the smoke box, which is a straight forward parallel role, again around formers. The usual Finney method of joining the cladding is utilised, which again makes it;s a simple affair. I've yet to add the bolt detail on the brackets;
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Finally the boiler centre, this is a taper role and takes a little time but goes together well. The washout plugs come etched as part of the cladding but the kit gives you the option of drilling these out and fitting a further etch underneath. I went for this option as I think it really lifts the look and when examining Brian's pictures it is closer to the real thing. Firstly, boiler drilled ready to tidy up and fit then wash out plug etch;
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Finally the three sections, the wash out plugs are seen fitted just behind the smoke box;
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The last main part for the boiler is the N/S smokebox front/door. Yet to be fitted but you get the idea;
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Next the footplate, before I go further with the boiler,

Mick
 
51XX Footplate

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Onto the footplate. This goes together really well and uses the usual MF model of a fold up affair, which is then detailed with overlays. Nine overlays are used and looking at this you will be forgiven that there's not a lot to show, but let me assure you there's a few hours work here;
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Now here's where I hit my first problem. The rivet details around the tank/bunker base. The instructions state to push out rivet detail. No problem I thought, I can do that. So off I went and fitted all the overlays. On admiring a 51XX built by @Fred Lewis at a show last year I noticed that the rivets were notably different in size. A large one, two small, then one large and so on. Not so here, had I made a balls of it???
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In short YES !!! Looking at Brian's photo's this detail smacked me clean in the face. I lost sleep over this and sought solace in mates, who said 'no-one will notice, don't worry'. Well after leaving it for a few weeks I finally decided this would need sorting and I couldn't live with it. Luckily we have some spare overlays in stock, so off these came and new ones riveted up and fitted. The pictures are two painful to post but the effort was well worth it. Moral of the story is..........STUDY THE PROTOTYPE:headbang:Here's a crop of my new rivet pattern;DSCF4318.jpg


With the above tale in mind can readers please help me out with this build if you see me doing something wrong, I'm not a GWR man and need all the help I can get here :thumbs: Final bit on the footplate structure is the valance joggle, again not noticeable straight away. This is a weak point in the etch and the instructions suggest strengthening with scrap etch. I used some flat brass strip from stock, which is much neater i think;
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The remainder of the footplate construction is around the front end, motion brake/splashers and smoke box saddle. This was a lot of work and once finished represents the prototype really well. Excuse the messy soldering inside the saddle, to be fair this will never be seen. The only additions I've made are the bolts holding down the lamp irons. They are scale hardware and really noticeable on the real thing. The kit represents these with a rivet but I wasn't happy with that. DSCF4307.jpg

The motion bracket was a barrel of laughs:confused: There's a rivet detail overlay and a number of small parts that try and ping off when you're fitting something else. Glad it's all done now as at times it tried my patience. All there is to do around this area now is to fit the castings but I will do this later when the tank is fitted;
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That's all for now. Next the tank/bunker

Mick
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Now here's where I hit my first problem. The rivet details around the tank/bunker base.... I noticed that the rivets were notably different in size. A large one, two small, then one large and so on.

With the above tale in mind can readers please help me out with this build if you see me doing something wrong, I'm not a GWR man and need all the help I can get here.
As you have asked.

The "rivet" pattern along the base of bunker is not that... rather a mix of bolts and rivet heads. The larger heads are bolts which attach the bunker to the hanging bar whilst the small heads are rivets which join the visible angle strip to the floor of the bunker. The same situation exists along the side tanks.

If you look at Brians's detail photos, particularly the photo of the footplate adjacent to the front of the side tank then you can see the difference in head patterns - large and small along the tank angle iron and just large heads (at a greater spacing) for the footplate.

Now you know, what are you going to do about the nuts which are visible under the top of the hanging bar?

Graham
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
As you have asked.

The "rivet" pattern along the base of bunker is not that... rather a mix of bolts and rivet heads. The larger heads are bolts which attach the bunker to the hanging bar whilst the small heads are rivets which join the visible angle strip to the floor of the bunker. The same situation exists along the side tanks.

If you look at Brians's detail photos, particularly the photo of the footplate adjacent to the front of the side tank then you can see the difference in head patterns - large and small along the tank angle iron and just large heads (at a greater spacing) for the footplate.

Now you know, what are you going to do about the nuts which are visible under the top of the hanging bar?

Graham

Thanks for the info Graham. To answer your question, I'm not sure yet. Attached is a fantastic picture of 6106 by @oldravendale (copyright is his). It shows the front lamp irons and motion bracket detail really well. The nuts you mention are in shadow here so shall I leave them off? I wonder will this become another one of those niggles :D
6106.  Southall Shed.  2 May 1965.  Personal Collection.  Final.  Photo Brian Dale.jpg

Mick
 

freelance7

Western Thunderer
Mick,

I will watch this thread with interest as I have one of these to build, it's been languishing in the cupboard for far to many years and I must make a start on it. It's interesting to note, and nice to see, that some of the etched parts are being replaced with castings. I can see an e mail to those nice Finney 7 chaps in the offing, at least the kit should be up and running by then.

Paul
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Oh ye of so little faith! Look at the second and third photos from the bottom of the first page of Brian's detail photos.

F7 is, after all, one of the guardians of 7mm finescale design and construction hence 'you' ought to be thinking about the next step in accuracy.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Very nice, is it going to be FS or S7?

Looking at Brian's photo's this detail smacked me clean in the face. I lost sleep over this and sought solace in mates, who said 'no-one will notice, don't worry'.
What kind of mates are these that'll allow you to settle for second best! :D You'll be glad you went the extra mile.
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Very nice, is it going to be FS or S7?


What kind of mates are these that'll allow you to settle for second best! :D You'll be glad you went the extra mile.

I could see disappointment in their eyes when they said it. I think they were just trying to be compassionate. In reality we all knew how it would go:))
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Got one of these on the wish list.

Never really be able to run it anywhere, but I've probably spent more time on a 41xx than any other engine, probably just trumps the Hall class, and I have a big soft spot for them.

I would say I'd stake some shots of ours, but it's currently having a very expensive overhaul.

JB.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,
Looks good! I hope you don't get hung up on bolts and rivets though.

I was very pleased with how my Scorpio one turned out, but I have a feeling this will make mine look second best.

By the way, I thought it was Edward not Mick who was the "confessor". You should have kept schtum.

As for the nuts under the hanging plate, I'd go for the "I can't see them and I know they are not there" approach.
Cheers,
Peter
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,
Looks good! I hope you don't get hung up on bolts and rivets though.

I was very pleased with how my Scorpio one turned out, but I have a feeling this will make mine look second best.

By the way, I thought it was Edward not Mick who was the "confessor". You should have kept schtum.

As for the nuts under the hanging plate, I'd go for the "I can't see them and I know they are not there" approach.
Cheers,
Peter

Cheers Peter,

I'm not a rivet counter in the traditional sense but I couldn't live with this as when I looked at Fred's model and the prototype I thought this was a stand out feature. Plus I'm in a position where I have spare overlays I suppose, which really gave me no excuse. Also I wanted to highlight that the instructions didn't allude to the fact that this pattern of rivet/bolt detail was needed ( from now on they will ). So if someone buys the kit and wants to look through the build thread it will help.

I may go with that rationale TBH, although I will discuss with the group and see what we want to do.

I'm not sure your's will be second best at all, it's a fantastic build, which I have had book marked for a while and have already used as a term of reference on a couple of occasions:thumbs:

Mick
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick,
You are too kind.

Yes I agree it made sense to correct the error. The Scorpio kit only provided for the larger "rivets" and without a proper rivet tool I declined to try to punch the missing ones into virgin brass. I must admit I missed the bolts under the hanging plate, but had I seen them I would have left them off. I don't think that from normal viewing distances they are that visible.

I took about the same number of photos of the two large prairies at Didcot as Brian did (maybe more). I doubt it, but if any detail eludes you and you can't find it in Brian's photos give me a shout as I may have something.

Also have you got the Swindon drawing from MRJ provided by Tony Reynalds some years ago. It is scaled to 7mm so very useful.

Looking forward to seeing this progress. Of the Finney, range this is the one that will be most likely to be in my price range ( Ok, I pushed the boat out for the second hand A3), and although I have one, I'd love one from this kit.

Cheers,
Peter
 
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