G3 Liverpool Lion

Discussion in 'G3' started by Jon Nazareth, 25 July 2015.

  1. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

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    This is the rear plate for the tender with the top flare riveted in place (pictures uploaded in the wrong order). My intention is to.............well, not quite sure what my intention is other than attempt to fix the side flared section to the tender side. Because the two side flares will be riveted in place, I'm going to have to carefully file the mitre curve until it fits, all of the rivet holes line up, solder the mitre and then clean back the rear flare up to the side flare. I'm sure there are folks out there saying Oh, I would have done it this way or that way. This is the first time that I've done this and I couldn't think of another way. I'm using real rivets as I thought that the flares would distort attempting to press dummy rivets along their edges. Not only distort but I also thought that the impressed rivets would 'spread' giving a sort of scalloped edge to the flares.

    Jon
     
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  2. lankytank

    lankytank Western Thunderer

    That's working Jon, looks good - did you get the book from the guy in Bath....?

    Barry
     
  3. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Barry
    I did but not much help as I didn't want to use the method described in the book on how to form the corners. I'll stay with the method as I described above and see how it turns out.

    Jon
     
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  4. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer


    Nice work Jon.

    I have similar problems with the tenders for my G&SWR locos albeit in 7mm scale. I used to fabricate the sides and rear like you have and then filed the mitre joint which is not easy! However as my build plan runs to about 30 similar tenders I could see a lot of frustration so came up with an easier way!

    I have a small linisher, DeWalt, which is handy for quickly shaping brass and nickel parts. By fabricating a jig to hold the side at the correct 45 degree angle the tedious job of mitering the corners is now done in seconds.

    There is a guide pin screwed onto the side of the linisher, removed when not needed. A dedicated holder made from some heavy brass is pivoted on the pin by means of a tube underneath. The raw side is clamped onto the holder and touched against the belt. Job done! These pictures shows the detail.

    Ian.

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  5. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Ian
    My coping is curved whereas yours looks flat. If the coping on the side you have already bent, how do you form the mitre on the flat belt?

    Jon
     
  6. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Trevor/Spitfire has asked how the rivets are set so, I though that it was best to post the answer here.

    Simply, the rivet is passed through the hole in the coping and then through the side. The rivet head is rested/pressed against an aluminium or brass block and the surplus length is cut off. I did try a piece of oak but it didn't offer enough resistance to the hammer blows. How much to be cut off is up to the user but I leave about 0.25-0.5mm proud. The hole where the shaft passes through the, in my case, side of the tender, is slightly countersunk to allow for the spread of the rivet when hammered. For the setting, if that's the right word, I use very light taps from the rounded end of a very small ball pein hammer. On this tender, the peining over will not show but I rub over with a file to make things flush, just in case...... The rivet head is not damaged by resting on brass or aluminium it may be however, if rested on steel.

    Jon
     
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  7. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

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    It's great when it goes well but a bit of a pain when there's this much scrap and wasted work. Oh well, as Scarlett O'Hara said, Tomorrow's always another day, :).

    Jon
     
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  8. Spitfire2865

    Spitfire2865 Western Thunderer

    I think we all have those days where nothing we touch goes right.
     
  9. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer

    Jon,

    The comings on mine are curved. In plan the joints are 45 degrees and the flat belt just sands the whole end to the correct angle.

    Ian.


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    Attached Files:

  10. Spitfire2865

    Spitfire2865 Western Thunderer

    I think Jons issue, like mine, is the tender flare is rounded from a top view. Luckily mine is straight, but his has the curve along the length as well.
    Though I may be wrong.
     
  11. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Ian
    I think that I've got it now. The sheet in the second picture is actually acting as a clamp and the coping is held under it. It shows better if the picture is viewed in a different window.

    Jon
     
  12. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    After yesterday's fiasco, I took it a lot steadier and gave the whole thing even more thought than I did before. The first thing that I did was to machine a mild steel 1" cube, or thereabouts, and mill two rebates to fit over the brass angle that I'd used. The sides were kept hard against the block by means of four very strong magnates, the sort that bite if you aren't careful, leaving a horrible blood blister in their wake. I didn't want the tender moving about as I envisaged the coping being tried and fitted very many times before I got the mitre joint just as I wanted it. The filing and fitting took me four hours in all to complete, not counting the machining of the block, but it is near perfect and I'm very pleased with the outcome :).
    The first picture shows the block in place. The second the evil but necessary magnets holding all together. The third shows the finished coping held temporarily with a clip. In the picture there appears to be a little gap at the top of the mitre but this must be a trick of the camera as the join is pretty good even if I say so myself. I glued a little piece of angled wood onto the inside face of one of the jaws of the clamp so that it wood straddle the curve of the coping holding it place while checking for fit. The high spots were marked with a felt tip the whole thing removed, filed and then replaced to check once more and so the process continued. Now the other side to do before they are both riveted on and the sides soldered to the rear.

    Jon




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  13. Spitfire2865

    Spitfire2865 Western Thunderer

    Impressive work.
     
  14. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Thank you Trevor
    Jon
     
  15. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

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    I riveted the copings to the sides and then and then soldered the sides to the brass angle already fixed to the rear section. I assumed that the brass angle was square, it wasn't, and having soldered the sides on, I wasn't about to try and unsolder them. The right side took some tweaking to get it square, the left side not quite so bad. At this point, I stopped and gave the whole thing a bit more thought, a lot of that going on at the moment, as to what next. I decided to sort out the base plate and how it was going to be fixed to the styrene underframe, then solder the part built tender to it before cutting off the surplus coping and filing to shape. I reasoned that the tender sides would be that much stronger fixed to the baseplate and would withstand the pressures of cutting and filing better.
    Before anyone says anything, the sides on the prototype didn't overlap the end section, or vice versa, but met corner to corner as above :).

    Jon
     
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  16. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    IMG_2605.JPG IMG_2607.JPG IMG_2613.JPG Here are some pictures of the part built tender to show the copings riveted in place and the corners soldered up, trimmed back, finished with a file and with the half round beading in place which I soldered on afterwards. Shaping the beading into an ovolo at the front took some doing but managed in the end. It took a bit of thinking over the rear corners too when fitting the beading but I sort of got it in the end and then filled the gaps with solder which doesn't show in the pictures and hopefully won't show when finally painted :D. The pictures were supposed to be under the script.

    Jon
     
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