7mm Geordie bruiser (NER A7)

Peter

Western Thunderer
Mick
More surprisingly other weight diagrams for tender engines also have this appellation, in those cases I'm pretty certain there is nothing that resembles a well tank. I wonder if this is a Darlingtonism for the reserve capacity when the main tanks are empty? Steph's description of it as a back tank is a good one, the Std4s certainly had it.
Regards
Martin

Hi Martin,

In Ken Hoole’s “An Illustrated History Of N.E.R. Locomotives", there is on page 201 a list of locomotives by class giving both the tank capacity and the well capacity of the respective tenders. On page 203 is a GA of the standard self-trimming tender of 1914 and clearly shown is the well tank sited under the tank.

I hope that this helps.

Peter
 
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Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Thanks very much for that Peter, don't know how I missed it. Having looked at the drawing it's clear that I am at cross purposes as to what a well tank actually is. In my view this is an extension of the water space below the running plate level, a well tank is a wholly separate container between the frames connected by pipework. I am in danger of straying into semantics so I won't prolong the agony further.

Mick
In my experience, yes you shovel off the floor and am I glad I usually have a boy to do this for me these days. As you are no doubt aware BR after 125 years manged to get both injectors on the firemans side, the water thereto comes from what is known as the sieve box, the bottom opens so you can clean out the trapped coal, fish, rats, pigeons all of which I have regrettably encountered.
Regards
Martin
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Martin, I think a well tank maybe any water space below the footplate be it wholly enclosed ans thus piped or a very large depressed area as part of the base to the main tank.

Shovel plate, didn't know that, must be uncomfortable as hell after a shift. The Northeners must have been softies as the shovel plate on the A7 is about knee height :cool:

My mate who served as a fireman at Cricklewood said they sometimes found eels in their sieve boxes :eek:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Managed to find a few spare hours and make up the rear frame section.

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The radial truck has two spigots with Slaters sprung horn guide springs on and two washers for a smooth bearing surface on the pressure plate/stay.

I picked two larger top hat bearings from the spares box, larger in as having a thick top hat rim which could be turned down to give near zero side play on the radial truck.

The rear frame section only requires the brake shaft and three levers to be attached followed by the external detail overlays to make it all pretty once the main frames are on.

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Radial truck in it's guides, with some very grubby wheels :eek: I did leave the door open to C'tain cock up and his merry crew here, the original design simply has two 'ears' for the guides which are folded in to the right angle, however, I placed the half etch bend line on the wrong side so when bent they didn't quite have the right gap between them for the radial truck. they had to come off and two new full width guides were cut from some scrap etch and soldered in. Once I'm happy it all fits and works I'll solder a couple of strips across the guides to hold the radial truck in place.

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View from above, the slots in the pressure plate limit the amount of side play and hopefully prevent the rims from shorting out onto the frames. Despite all the CAD accuracy they are over egged and the rim just skims the frames, it'll certainly touch when the overlay goes on. To counter this I'll simply solder a short piece of wire across each slot to stop the peg and thus the truck before the rims touch the frames.

The A7 is a big ole bessy so I won't be expecting it to get round anything less than a 6 foot curve.

Now that the corner stone is fabricated the main frames can be added on and the pace gets a little quicker.

MD
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
When I did the radial trucks for the N7's I found the wagon buffer springs to be more than sufficient.

Those springs 'may' need a bit more weight to compress them?

JB.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Jon,
Once Mick's been over it and got a chassis running we can work on the spring ratings. We did a similar thing with the W1 when Mick designed the trailing trucks on that, so we should be able to work out a solution here if Mick isn't getting the performance he wants at this stage. :thumbs:

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
When I did the radial trucks for the N7's I found the wagon buffer springs to be more than sufficient.

Those springs 'may' need a bit more weight to compress them?

JB.
Valid point but these seem to be lighter than the normal ones I've seen that come with the insulated horn blocks, these came in a small tub on their own and are slightly longer, less tightly wound and appear a thinner gauge, not measured them yet.

The A7 is a huge engine and my main concern is that with the long rigid wheelbase, that when backing up the radial wheel rim may ride up the rail on tighter curves if there's not enough spring pressure

But as Steph say's it's all trial and error at this stage, I have increased the size of the washer on the etch in case I have to go with a larger softer spring like a buffer spring later.

MD
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Okay...it's big :eek:

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Basic frame is there, all the wheels fit and sit flat with no rock, tomorrow I'll trim all the tabs and add the overlays and then begin with some details.

I was a little ahead with the rear section and added the guard irons and brake shaft bracket, which meant that the frames did not sit flat for joining, so off they came and will go back on tomorrow now that the front and rear sections are on.

MD
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Now that's an interesting shot, the front buffer beam outer plate has a rounded corner, could be collision damage but then you'd expect the rear plate to deform a little as well.

Any of the back head would be of use as well, there are some in the Booklaw Publications scrapyard volumes but not quite definitive enough.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Mick,
That damage is much what I'd expect; the back plate is typically thicker on locos with sandwich buffer-beams and, of course, it's reinforced. So in this case it's just crushed the timber. However you look at it, it's one of those details which would look like rubbish modelmaking rather than skill if anyone decided to make it a feature!

It's interesting to see that the rivets have been burned out ready for a boiler lift...

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick,
That damage is much what I'd expect; the back plate is typically thicker on locos with sandwich buffer-beams and, of course, it's reinforced. So in this case it's just crushed the timber. However you look at it, it's one of those details which would look like rubbish modelmaking rather than skill if anyone decided to make it a feature!

It's interesting to see that the rivets have been burned out ready for a boiler lift...

Steph
Steph, I was thinking more of it being a design trait than collision damage, I.E turning in the ends of the outer platework, designers did some odd things back in those days to 'please' the eye, form over function.

Mind I've not seen anything else anywhere on the A6 or A7 that conforms to that thought process, just more WWI battleship plate work design work truth be told.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
A moderately productive weekend, most of the LH side done, despite being washed several times and unlike Levis from my youth, it hasn't shrunk.

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Whilst NS is lovely to work with it's a right bear to photograph.

It's slightly better close up.
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The reversing lever shaft bearings were a bit of a trifle to get in place and the pixies were in overnight during the CAD work to add an extra hole in the outer overlay, which shouldn't and won't be on the next rendition. A small rebate bearing shaped will be on the inside of the next frames to make locating said parts easier. There's just enough flex in the frames to pop the shaft out but that'll go when the inside motion bracket goes (still researching that component) in.

The brake hangers came out well, made up of three pieces which if you follow the plan (which I rarely do) go together rather easily.

IMG_0702.jpg

Up front the middle cylinder bolt flanges were added, simple strips punched and soldered into place as is the base of the bogie stretcher, motion bracket is a laminate with simple fold around flange, join the dots and follow the yellow brick road sort of stuff.

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The bogie splashers were then dropped in, the rear one having a face plate which I think is going to present problems if left at fine scale width. I tested the frames with some donor wheels and the front has a massive overhang on a 6' curve, which is probably why the 1:1 engines had oval buffers.

Moving the face plate out further runs the risk of impacting the cross head, though that might be possible as the slide bars are scale width and the frames for O Fine. Technically the face plate could come out another 1.0mm each side. Question is will it look at odds with the rest of the area, next chassis will have two strips, one as is and one wider.

Next up will be the cylinder cover fronts, I'm opting for one with covers as the 3D parts are not ready yet, the overly large hols centred and the right size so expect no issue fitting the casting when they arrive, though the middle cylinder front will need it's hole opening out on the next chassis, no idea why I ever imagined I'd needed a small hole in there when both the outsides are large.

Footplate brackets all sorted as well, Nick has added an extra bracket that I didn't add to the original etch, simply because I had no proof at the time that it was there, the drawings are singularly and collectively useless in this aspect.
However some scrap yard photos of similar NER engines show some with some sort of additional flange on there; so I'll add them to the next run reasoning it's easier to take it off at the bend if you have it, than it is to add it if it's not there.

MD
 
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