Great Eastern E22 (J65) in gauge 3

geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I said I'd start a thread with mu latest project, well this is one of them, a GER E22 0-6-0T in gauge 3. So far it's just the frames with a set of Mike's hornblocks. The wheels you see are Slaters temporarily fitted to check the coupling rods don't bind. I'm expecting a more prototypical set from Mark Wood in a couple of weeks. This is my first scratch built loco (electric RC not live steam)
 
Stevesopwith

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
Super job Geoff,

Can you give us a basic outline of your methods in this scale, eg. frame component production?

I notice your avatar shows the wheelset for the ECR Gooch single...... is that another of your projects?

A thread on that one would be marvellous.

Cheers.... Steve.
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
The frames are 1.5mm steel, because that's what everyone else does. the design was based on the way Mike Williams designed his Manning Wardle frames. the combination of horizontal and vertical spacers with tabs fitting into slots in the frames , creates a stable structure which is easy to hold together while you solder it. I had originally intended to use GRS brass frame spacers, but they are only 49mm long. which brings me to the most important decision of the whole process, how big do you make the space between the frames? the G3 soc standard wheels back to back is 58mm. Then 2mm for the two axle bushes. Even with 8' 0" radius curves I worked out I'd need very little slack. So I settled on 52mm between the frames. Of course, I haven't had a chance to prove all this works yet. I'll see in a fortnight's time when the six wheels arrive.
My avatar shows the wheels for the ECR Gooch class 'A' 2-2-2WT which will be built next. This may be a while off yet.
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
For anyone not familiar with Gauge 3, Mark Wood's wheels are the "Alan Harris of Gauge 3" and he is happy to do the most obscure ones. I've made a few wheels myself now with 3D CAD, solid printing, sending away to have waxes made and then again for casting in iron. The whole process takes ages, is prone to accidental damage at various stages and is not cheap. I do now have five types of 15-spoke and 16-spoke 5ft 2in wheels but in future I'll just use Mark instead.

Looking very nice Geoff looks like you've mapped out your modelling for the next 5 years.

Mike
 
Stevesopwith

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
Geoff, I've got the HTB side view drawing of the Class A, from the Locomotive Magazine; is there a more extensive set of drawings, in any scale, available for this loco?
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
The drawing in my avatar is by GERS member Doug Sheldrake. He produced a kit in 'O' gauge. I bought this kit, but upgraded to Gauge 3 and never built it (I still have it if anyone would like to buy it) He used a sectioned elevation he found in D Kinnear Clarks book Railway Machinery Vol 2 (the plates) If you email me geoffreynicholls@btinternet.com I'll send you some scans.
This book also includes drawings of the ECR North Woolwich carriages and, I think is also the source for some excellent looking stock being offered by Parly Trains http://www.parlytrains.co.uk/ also in 'O' gauge.
I think we may need an "Early Railways" thread...
 
Stevesopwith

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
I agree about the 'Early Railways ' thread, shall I start it or will you ?

Re. your kit: a dibs e-mail is on it's way!

Cheers...... Steve.
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Geoff,

I'm sorry to say that I was so busy at the show that I didn't have time to leave my stand for long, which means I hardly looked at yours - sorry!

What we can't really see is that your wheels are on split and insulated axles and the whole assembly is just gorgeous! I know we owe David White a great deal for making such a huge range of wheels available in many scales, but for me there's nothing like a cast iron wheels, except a cast iron wheel.

But Geoff, you can't post a picture of those lovely wheels, on a thread mentioning early railways, without telling us about that object in the background which seems to be about 75 years more recent? Please tell us more.

Mike
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
JB,
depending on what you want to model, you may not need a lot of space. The photos show my layout which is 12' 6" long of which 6' is fiddle yard. It represents the branch bay platform of a large station, with a gated siding going off to a private factory (malting, granary or Milk) it can accommodate a branch train of three four wheelers, two six wheelers or a class 142 Pacer or 153 tin rocket.

Mike,
what you could see in the background is the control panel of the GRS class 08 I'm building. unfortunately I don't really think it's worthy of this forum, the kit itself has several faults, and I committed the cardinal sin of hand painting the body. I'm just hoping some matt varnish will flatten the brush marks.
It's saving grace is that, like the other GRS kits I've bought, it runs like a dream. I'll post it later to show how I fitted the revolution RC and you must pretend not to notice the paint job.nrm 2 013.JPGlayout1 004.JPG
 
Scale7JB

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Thanks Geoff, but unfortunately being in a 4th floor flat in East London prevents any form of layout.. Haha..

I have to stick to the 7mm loco workbench for the time being, but RC G3 is definitely an itch that keeps reminding me to scratch it!

JB.
 
Dikitriki

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
geoff_nicholls said:
JB,

what you could see in the background is the control panel of the GRS class 08 I'm building. unfortunately I don't really think it's worthy of this forum, the kit itself has several faults, and I committed the cardinal sin of hand painting the body. I'm just hoping some matt varnish will flatten the brush marks.
View attachment 29091View attachment 29092
Click to expand...

Hi Geoff

I don't agree with that sentiment. The starting point is not relevant. It's the journey that is interesting, and where you end up. I'm sure there would be a lot of interest in a G3 08, especially what you did to improve the breed.

Yours

Richard
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
Jamie,
I got Dan Pinnock to blow up three of his Great Eastern etches: third, brake third and first. I was aware that he'd done it before, so the white metal castings for the springs and axleboxes, and the brass footboard supports were already available. Compensated W irons were included, but no underframe. At £370 for the three they were meant to be a cheap and simple way to have a train quickly. Once they arrived, I decided to fit interiors. The etchings cover an inner body of laser cut ply, three layers with slots for the glazing. Unfortunately the hand drawn etchings didn't exactly match up with the CAD drawn ply, and I made some miscalculations, so they weren't as easy to put together as they should have been. I added the birdcage myself. the teak painting is also my fault. Other projects got in the way.
So five years on they are still not quite finished.
The technique I used: etched overlays over a laser cut ply body does work very well, but I didn't exercise enough patience, skill and forethought. I will for the next one.

PS
for any other G3 GER fans, the awning valance you can see in the background is by Poppys Woodtech001.JPG
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I'd like advice on how much upwards and downwards movement of the axles I should allow, both on the E22, and on a 2-2-2WT I've started work on, also in gauge 3
J65 (GER E22) will have sprung axles. Currently I'm thinking of allowing 1.5mm upwards on the centre axle and no upward movement for the outer axles, the springs will not support the loco, just push the axles down if the track lowers.
2-2-2WT:
I compensated this to put more weight on the centre axle. The trailing axle rocks. Can I get away with just 1mm up and 1mm down, for each of the three axles?
I want to be able to run these at gauge 3 get-togethers, i.e. garden layouts, as my layout is a tiny shunting puzzle indoors. The body of each loco leaves very little room for slop. What experience do others have with similar locos?os?
 
Stevesopwith

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
For the Class A 2-2-2 WT project, ( in 7mm. ) I came a similar conclusion regarding using compensation rather than springs. Space is even more limited, and the ABC unit fits best with the motor at the front, ( with a slide on boiler unit ). This, plus weight in the front well tank, puts the centre of gravity somewhat forward of the drivers. Therefore, I plan to fit side compensation beams between the driving and rear carrying wheels, with the beam pivot set to bias the weight towards the drivers. This will also keep clear the area behind the smokebox for valve gear, possibly working? The front carrying wheels will be arranged to rock. This set up is exactly the same as fitted to the full size Sinclair 2-4-0s, with a very visible beam supporting the inner ends of the driving wheel springs, which I shall incorporate on the 7mm version when I get round to it. :rolleyes:

As for vertical axle movement: the unknown factor will be the 'quality' of the track at get-togethers; but compensation systems are self adjusting, so you could allow for a worst case vertical track misalignment, eg. 2mm as you suggest, without prejudice to running on less challenging track. I have no experience of outdoor layouts, but my feeling is that anything approaching 2mm misalignment over the wheelbase of an average 6 wheeled vehicle really needs some attention from the PW Dept!
 
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