How to do the interior of 16T minerals?

Discussion in 'Techniques' started by Dog Star, 16 January 2018.

  1. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I'm fairly sure that most weren't - add damp coal from the washery and and winter at the bottom of a Welsh valley into the mix and a water-tight box results (as it seems to have done here) in which water has clearly frozen. In summer it'd almost certainly just run out of the bottom.

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  2. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    So am I!

    It might just be they are filled with a fine coal / shale waste which has become waterlogged and gradually levelled out - likely then to become self-sealing as Adam suggests, which holds water well. Just like old dump trucks :rolleyes:
  3. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Here's my take on the 16 ton mineral, the interior had a 50/50 coat of matt black/dark earth and a touch of leather with a brush. Once it was bone dry I wafted Humbrol Metalcote Steel over the inside, when this was dry it was polished with cotton buds.

    DSCF3725.JPG DSCF3726.JPG DSCF3727.JPG
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  4. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    Hi Col how did you do the outside
  5. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

  6. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

  7. Ian_C

    Ian_C Western Thunderer

    I've often wondered about this. Strange that there were thousands upon thousands of the things built but no clear record or recollection of how the inside was finished. Maybe that suggests the inside wasn't finished at all? However, there's a photo of a brand new 16 tonner in a rolling stock exhibition at Marylebone. Early 50's I'd guess. The inside of that one has clearly been finished in black. Whether that's 'exhibition finish' or not I don't know. I also recall reading somewhere that a bituminous paint was used inside steel coal carrying wagons to protect against progressive corrosion caused by wet coal. If I come across the photo and references to bituminous paint I'll post them here. In service for any length of time though - all rust, and there's often a 'tide mark' where the top of the load sat.
  8. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

  9. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Now those are just what I had in mind, thank you Tony.
  10. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    Someone just posted this photo on Facebook this morning it's not mine so I hope no one complains. I think it needed to be shared though as it's the best example of an interior shot that I have seen yet. If there is an issue with copyright please remove it. FB_IMG_1522214379787.jpg
  11. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    That is a useful shot. Is there a date for it? It could be a coincidence but the wagons in the foreground are early 16 tonners. It is a pity the end doors are in shadow as they could help identify which diagram the wagons are. The corner of the wagon partially visible in the bottom left shows the typical corner reinforcing detail of BR ordered wagons. The next wagon does not have the reinforced corners and looks like it is a LMS diag 2109 wagon with fabricated side doors, and one of the bottom doors is visible. The next wagon also does not have reinforced corners but has pressed side doors which look like diag 1/102 pressed doors (2 horizontal pressed ribs) rather than the pyramid type used on the LMS diag 2109 wagons, so it could be a diag 1/102. The next wagon looks like it has similar side doors but does have reinforced corners, it could also be a diag 1/102. Next is a slope sided diag 1/100 or 1/101 wagon. Beyond that the wagons have top doors so could be diag 1/108, but could also be LMS diag 2134 or BR diag 1/104 (if they don't have reinforced corners) or 1/106. Plenty of early 16t wagons seem to have been retrofitted with reinforced corners but wagons built with them never lost the reinforced corners.

    Since Steph's query the other week I have been pondering buying a Peco 16t steel mineral kit and what I would do to it. I am not sure how many were built with pressed doors and how many with fabricated doors. Mark Smithers 'The Royal Arsenal Railways' book has some interesting photos of the diag 1/102 production line at Woolwich and some details about the 20,000 wagons, 11,050 of which were built at Woolwich, including the running numbers. He states they were ordered by the LMS which is quite possible - it would have made sense for the Ministry of Transport to have the big four manage the procurement of new wagons as an interim measure before the planned Nationalization. Half were delivered before Britcish Railways was formed. I have also noticed a good photo of a diag 1/102 pressed side door in the background of the photo on page 1 of 'Non-pool Freight Stock 1948-1968 Vol 2' by David Larkin, unfortunately it doesn't show the whole wagon. The pressing is quite different to the slope sided mineral doors which have a triangle pattern. So the pressed side doors would have to be scratch built.

    Apologies for the ramble.
    Last edited: 30 March 2018
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  12. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    Hello Overseer. The date is meant to be 1962 and it's taken on the Muchty line in Scotland I believe I hope that helps. The wagons are meant to be redundant so I guess on their way to being scrapped.
    Mark J
  13. Intercity126

    Intercity126 Active Member

    If I remember correctly there is quite extensive top-down footage of the interior of several 16 tonners (and other open wagons) towards the end of the classic Ealing Comedy "The Ladykillers".
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  14. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Thanks Mark. That would explain the concentration of the earlier 16 ton wagons. They look it pretty good condition from what we can see and would only be about 15 years old, just shows too many small wagons were ordered for traffic that changed more quickly than expected.

    Being in storage explains the bright orange rust on the floor of the foreground wagon. Unless parked empty for weeks the floor would be coloured black/brown, more like the sides.
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  15. Bob Reid

    Bob Reid Western Thunderer

    Excellent choice....



  16. GrahamMc

    GrahamMc Member

    The railway footage that includes these stills is on a three minute video on Youtube. The 16t shots are towards the end.

    Last edited: 31 March 2018
  17. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    Also a brief glimpse from different angle at 1 min 50 odd - note the grey 'overspray' on the end of one :rolleyes:

    16T int.jpg