Inside valvegear in 7mm. Techniques and components

Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Yep, got that pic too - it's the conclusive proof that the 32xx series locos had Stroudley balancing...

Wasn't too sure about the copyright tho - otherwise I'd have posted it sooner.

Steph
 
adrian

adrian

Flying Squad
Rob Pulham

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Hopefully Steph won't mind me adding this appeal to his thread?

My son has bought me a Shedmaster F4/5 kit for Christmas and I would like to build it with working inside motion. Some time ago I bought some LG inside motion parts from eBay and I would like to know what is missing so I can buy the individual castings from Laurie. At the same time as ordering the F5 having sold some more of my 4mm stuff I also ordered a J24 (Shedmaster)and my original plan was to order one of Laurie's NER/GER working inside motion sets and then compare what I had to the full set.

It will be into next year before funds allow this, so in the mean time I thought I would ask if anyone had a set that they would mind taking a photo or two of so I can see what you get in the set?

This is what I have at present.

Inside motion.jpg
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

How about instructions? or a list of contents?

Maybe you could contact Laurie and ask for either of the above?

I think that you are assuming that the parts are all from the same set... seems reasonable although you might need to be wary in case you have a mixture. Looking at the photograph it seems to me that there are some parts missing for I would expect most of the motion work to be present in "even" quantities, eg. 2 off or 4 off. There are some single castings in the photo, eg, connecting rod, valve spindle, eccentric straps / rods for items that ought to be in multiples.

What puzzles me about the photo is that the LHS appears to show slidebars attached to a piston stuffing box... in which case what is the casting on the RHS that looks like a pair of slidebars?

regards, Graham
 
Buckjumper

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Sorry Rob, but some of that is wrong for the F4/5 locos. The earliest couple of batches had 4-bar slidebars, but the vast majority had single wide slidebars (we think the early batches gained wide slidebars in the mid-90s anyway). Also you won't need balance weights - the GER dispensed with them following an accident in 1882 when one fell off at speed, bounced between the wheels and into the path of an oncoming loco which derailed it...very quickly an alternative was devised and fitted to all locos - a spring on the weigh shaft anchored to the frames. This remained Stratford practice till the end. I think I've got a spare set somewhere, but it'll have to be a cellphone photo until I get my new DSLR lens.
 
Buckjumper

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
rob Inside motion_01.jpg

Two-bar slidebars and crossheads in your set need replacing.

SECR valvegear0024_01.jpg

Left: Four-bar slidebars et al in Steph's set only for very early F4s. Bottom right: balance weights aren't needed on GER locos after 1882.
 
Rob Pulham

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
Hi Rob,

How about instructions? or a list of contents?

Maybe you could contact Laurie and ask for either of the above?

I think that you are assuming that the parts are all from the same set... seems reasonable although you might need to be wary in case you have a mixture. Looking at the photograph it seems to me that there are some parts missing for I would expect most of the motion work to be present in "even" quantities, eg. 2 off or 4 off. There are some single castings in the photo, eg, connecting rod, valve spindle, eccentric straps / rods for items that ought to be in multiples.
Click to expand...

You mean there are instructions!
I have to admit as to not getting as far in the thought process as needing instructions:oops:

I did wonder if there were foreign parts mixed in with the LG ones. This thought was based on Steph's observation at the time that I bought them (earlier in this thread), where he thought that there may be some Sanspariel parts mixed in. I was sure that there were parts missing but I only paid £9 for the lot I seem to remember.

That was why I posted the photo showing exactly what I had already. I will drop Laurie an email and ask the question.

Thanks to Steph and Adrian for the photo's and anotations they are just what I was hoping for.

I assume (always dangerous) that while the balance weights are not relevant for GER locos, if they are included in Laurie's NER/GER set then they will be needed for the NER J24 (and the N10 when I get that far)?
 
Rob Pulham

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
What puzzles me about the photo is that the LHS appears to show slidebars attached to a piston stuffing box... in which case what is the casting on the RHS that looks like a pair of slidebars?
Click to expand...

Sadly I don't know enough about all the gubbins yet to identify them!
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Rob Pulham said:
Sadly I don't know enough about all the gubbins yet to identify them!
Click to expand...
Rob,

Might I suggest getting hold of the HMRS papers on the subject - they're a huuuge help. I also like Locomotive Valves and Valve Gears by Lake, C.S. and Reidinger, A. It generally costs peanuts, and is somewhat more technical than we would need, but it does illustrate all types of valvegear. Recently reprinted too...

Steph
 
Buckjumper

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Hi Rob

If you'll excuse the horrible quality of photo from my phone, for a GER loco with Stephenson's Link valve gear you will need the following:

ge_motion.jpg

1. 2 x end straps
2. 2x connecting rods
3. 4 x eccentric straps
4. 2x cranks - these ones are circular and need replacing with elliptical ones (you have some - top right corner of your photo)
5. eccentrics (pre-assembled)
6. 2x wide single bar slide bars
7. 2 x wide single bar cross-heads
8. 1 x valve spindle guides, steam chest end
9. 1x valve spindle guides, motion bracket end
10. 2x expansion links
11. 2x lifting links
12. 4x forked ends
13. 2x Cylinder covers front
14. 2x cylinder covers rear
15. 2x weighshaft bearings
16. 2 x valve spindles

17. 2x balance weights - these are not needed for any GE loco post-1882. Instead a spring was used. I think Col's got a photo in his set he took of the T26 at Bressingham.
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Adrian, I think that part no.12 is more than a forked end.... if no.12 is not the eccentric rods then the kit of parts seems to have something AWOL.

In passing, the forked ends of eccentric rods on the GWR are not identical.... the fork are "in-line" for the foward gear rods and are "offset" for the reverse gear rod.

regards, Graham
 
Buckjumper

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Dog Star said:
Adrian, I think that part no.12 is more than a forked end.... if no.12 is not the eccentric rods then the kit of parts seems to have something AWOL.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking yes - but they are the forked ends which need to be lap-jointed to part 3, the eccentric straps, to make the whole of the eccentric rod.


Edit: Richard beat me to it...
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Dog Star said:
Adrian, I think that part no.12 is more than a forked end.... if no.12 is not the eccentric rods then the kit of parts seems to have something AWOL.

In passing, the forked ends of eccentric rods on the GWR are not identical.... the fork are "in-line" for the foward gear rods and are "offset" for the reverse gear rod.

regards, Graham
Click to expand...

Graham,

That's true for most locos in my experience - it's the problem of getting the two eccentric rods to align with one expansion link...

Buckjumper said:
Hi Rob

If you'll excuse the horrible quality of photo from my phone, for a GER loco with Stephenson's Link valve gear you will need the following:

View attachment 7950

1. 2 x end straps
2. 2x connecting rods
3. 4 x eccentric straps
4. 2x cranks - these ones are circular and need replacing with elliptical ones (you have some - top right corner of your photo)
5. eccentrics (pre-assembled)
6. 2x wide single bar slide bars
7. 2 x wide single bar cross-heads
8. 1 x valve spindle guides, steam chest end
9. 1x valve spindle guides, motion bracket end
10. 2x expansion links
11. 2x lifting links
12. 4x forked ends
13. 2x Cylinder covers front
14. 2x cylinder covers rear
15. 2x weighshaft bearings
16. 2 x valve spindles

17. 2x balance weights - these are not needed for any GE loco post-1882. Instead a spring was used. I think Col's got a photo in his set he took of the T26 at Bressingham.
Click to expand...

Adrian,

Interesting - it's identical to the set I've got for my LSWR G6 0-6-0t. Maybe the Adams connection...?
Steph
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Buckjumper said:
Strictly speaking yes - but they are the forked ends which need to be lap-jointed to part 3, the eccentric straps, to make the whole of the eccentric rod.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, understand. The eccentric rods have been cast with the eccentric straps...

Just too complicated.
 
Buckjumper

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Steph Dale said:
Graham,
Adrian,

Interesting - it's identical to the set I've got for my LSWR G6 0-6-0t. Maybe the Adams connection...?
Click to expand...

Very much so. Mechanically, Adams' inside cylinder locos - his tank engines - were virtually identical to Holden's glut of buckjumper classes.

Holden perpetuated what he saw as good design from his predecessors which led to an extraordinary policy of standardisation, not only in outline, but boilers and cylinders/motion. By the end of the GER, 97% of the total stock could be divided into five basic cylinder and motion types leaving just six non-standard classes - 42 locos. Likewise 4/5ths of the locos shared five boiler types, again leaving just six non-standard classes. Sometimes this standardisation worked spectacularly - the T26 (E4) mixed traffic class, but sometimes it failed - the N31 standard goods which were supposed to replace the Y14 (J15)s but became extinct 40 years before the latter.
 
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