LBSCR 1st Class Carriage 1864

Discussion in 'G3' started by Jon Nazareth, 19 July 2020.

  1. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    These are some of the etches for a LBSCR Craven 1st Class Carriage. I'm only going to clean up one side and one over-lay and then have a go at soldering the two together. Some of you may remember the cock up I made when trying the same task on another early carriage where I managed to distort it to b*&&^"y. I have two sets of these etches so, at least, I'll have a good run at it :D. It would be good if I could solder the whole thing first go without distortion, fingers crossed.

    Jon

    IMG_4298-001.JPG IMG_4301.JPG IMG_4302.JPG
     
  2. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    That looks like fun Jon, being half etched certainly doesn't help.
    I think I would tin the rear full thickness part and use my RSU and hope.

    I suppose if you had a large enough hotplate that would do the right temperature, and place it on a removable thin aluminium sheet, after the assy had reached temp and the solder flowed, remove the ali plate and coach sides and allow to cool down.
    I have used this technique in the past in my production engineering days, so as everything is at the same temp it should stay flat - maybe I need to make a 3-400 deg hotplate to prove the point.

    Or you could use adhesive ?

    Richard
     
  3. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Arty
    I'm still cleaning up one of the sides and I haven't even started on the inner window section so, lots of time to think about what to do. With my failed attempt at the Queen Victoria's Carriage etches, where I tried to solder the whole thing so that flux wouldn't get trapped between the two layers. I'm now thinking of simply tacking the inner section in place and then put the side into the ultrasonic tank in order to neutralise the flux. I, like yourself, did think about adhesive but then, how would I attach the ends and all of those other pieces that would add up to a carriage. I do have an RSU but, I've never used it and I don't think that I would want to practise on this. When I get around to it, I think that I'll go for the tacking method unless, anyone else out there has any ideas, all welcome.

    Jon
     
    Arty likes this.
  4. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    I've now finished cleaning up one side, one end and one of the overlays. An Hold and Fold was used to support the etches while I cleaned off the cusp on the edges of the window openings. Without it's help, I think that it would have been very easy to have buckled the edges. I also rounded off, as best I could, the edges on the overlay which didn't come out too badly. The rounding shows up as reflection from the lighting above the etch. It was more difficult to do the same on the etch of the side as the brass is quite thin and tends to bend away from the file. I may have a go at soldering the overlay on tomorrow if I can muster up the courage.

    Jon

    IMG_4305.JPG IMG_4307.JPG
     
    mswjr, Peter Cross, Ian_T and 3 others like this.
  5. ianlbsc

    ianlbsc Western Thunderer

    For the 4mm and 7mm model that this was just blown up from for Jon, I just tacked at the bottom and at the top and these have held perfectly well. The folded over top flange stiffened the side and provided a landing for the end as well as there being a notch to locate the bottom of the body to. I don't know how well the simple increase in size would work so it will be interesting to see how this goes. Cheers, Ian Craven 2.jpg Craven 1.jpg
     
  6. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    IMG_4315.JPG

    I was taking no chances with distortion this time and so, I made this simple clamp. The large holes are for the screws and the small for locating pins that passed through the holes etched for the handles.
    IMG_4316.JPG
    Etches lined up and located with the three tapered pins.

    IMG_4318.JPG
    Etches firmly clamped in place.

    IMG_4319.JPG

    This is the finished side after 20mins in the sonic cleaning tank. On the right, I tried to draw the solder along but this resulted in some distortion as the iron passed over the half etched, very thin sections. After that , I only tried to solder where the window framing was which meant that the etch was full thickness. Even then, the joint failed in a couple of places. I was using 188 solder but for the other side I'll try 145. I ran out of Carr's green flux and was using some that I had bought from Hobby Holidays. This is a new soldering iron, Xytronic LF 1700, as my old one packed up. The temperature was set to 350 but still I couldn't get the solder to flow/run and this is the first time that I have used it. Well, second, as Queen Victorias carriage was the first and that was a disaster. Fingers crossed for better results with the other side once I've cleaned up the etches.
    With so much heat, I would have thought that the solder would have melted and flowed quite easily but, not this time. Any thoughts from anyone?

    Jon
     
    mswjr, Wagonman, Spitfire2865 and 2 others like this.
  7. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    I wonder Jon if it may down to tip size, I note the biggest tip for your iron is 5mm ?
    I suspect it may be about heat transfer.
    The iron I would normally use for seams etc on G3 is a 100w “conventional” iron which has a tip size of 10mm, and I find I need to make sure it has a “pool” of solder between the bit and the work to transfer the heat rapidly.
    1F5BECB2-61F7-4300-B1CF-C34166929579.jpeg
    I have a Weller WD100 again a temp controlled 100w iron but is incapable of doing similar joints.

    Richard
     
    simond, mswjr and Sleeper Agent like this.
  8. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Arty
    That all sounds very interesting and yes, max size of tip is about 5mm. My old unit had a 4/5mm bit and I had no problems soldering 7mm kits but this is the first time that I've tried G3. A couple of questions. What melting point solder are you using and at what temperature are you setting your iron?

    Jon
     
  9. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    The Weller iron has a magnastat system to set the temp at 370deg, the solder I usually use is 145 and as it has no flux cores I have always used Frys Powerflux. Being a paste you can apply it exactly where you want it, and just to make sure I always Scotchbright the surfaces -
     
  10. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Thanks Richard.
    I'm just about to solder up the other side, fingers crossed.

    Jon
     
    Arty likes this.
  11. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    Good luck.
     
  12. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Well, what d'yer know, that went like a dream. I switched to 145 solder and set the temperature to 355, not sure why not 350 or 360, and off I went, perfect. Spurred on by this success, I made a start on this LBSCR Second Class carriage which also turned out a success. It was, of course, soldered from the back but some of the solder crept through to the front. It is just visible on the lower edge of the right hand window large opening. I'll clean it off with a fibreglass pen.
    I've been thinking about the glazing for both coaches. Because of the way that the overlay is fitted in both cases and will show on the insides. The fact that there will be hinges showing on the inside of the First and the backs of various door handles and grab handles showing on the inside of both First and Second, I'm seriously thinking of fixing pieces of glazing the full length of both coaches and painting them black on the inside. This will at least show that the windows are glazed but not show all of the gubbins, I thinks that's how it's spelt, on the inside. I did want to fit seats in both coaches but the seats that I have, well, I have another plan for those. Any or all comments welcome.

    Jon

    IMG_4320.JPG
     
  13. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    Excellent job Jon, glad you have sorted your soldering out - it can be done.
     
  14. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    Lovely Jon. I wouldn't worry about the look of the inside. Add some seats and looking through a window they are all you will see. Everything else will be dark, reflecting, or generally indistinct. If you really want to paint the back of the glass, instead of black, what colour were LBSC window blinds when lowered?

    Mike
     
  15. ianlbsc

    ianlbsc Western Thunderer

    Hi Jon
    I have a Xytronic LF-3200. I set it at 380 and use 145 solder. This the 2nd class type 8 you have the sides and ends of. Along with the other, less windowed type and a type 9 luggage brake 2nd, all 7mm. I really must get some paint on them now!
    Cheers Ian Type 8 n 9 a.jpg
     
  16. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Ian
    I'm trying to work out carriage colour details and where the lettering should be. I have the two volumes of LBSCR stock but there don't seem to be any definite answers.

    Jon
     
  17. ianlbsc

    ianlbsc Western Thunderer

    Modellers' Digest

    Modellers Digest No 4 has Peter Wisdom's finished 7mm version for one idea. Cheers Ian
     
  18. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Ian
    Thanks for the tip. I looked up that edition and the second class is green which is even more confusing :D. I'll send Peter an email to ask what shade of green he has used.

    Jon
     
  19. ianlbsc

    ianlbsc Western Thunderer

    All sorts for thirds or seconds, mainly varnished teak or mahogany for 1sts. These are all my 4mm carriages that Nicholas Prior had built and painted. IMG_5185[6828].JPG IMG_5187[6829].JPG IMG_5188[6830].JPG IMG_5189[6831].JPG IMG_5190[6832].JPG IMG_5191[6833].JPG
     
    BG Rich, mswjr, Ian_T and 6 others like this.
  20. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    This week, I ha been mostly making buffers. There are two sets for the above carriages, a set for a brake van, a set for a van and two for what is going to be an invented brake van ala Henson. The bases are brass, the heads are steel with a square pad of Ebony epoxied on and then turned round.

    Jon

    IMG_4327.JPG IMG_4328.JPG
     
    BG Rich, Ian_T, Andrew and 6 others like this.