LBSCR Open Carriage Truck

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
IMG_1443.JPG IMG_1447.JPG IMG_1449.JPG

Here are the little handles fitted to the crossbars, I think that they worked out okay. Now some thought to Mikes wheel restraint :).

Andy
This is one of Parly Trains enlargement from O Gauge to G3 that Mike has sorted out. This is a trial build in between all of the other bits and pieces that I'm doing. Now that I've shown it here, I had better get on with it.

Jon

P.S. What diameter do you think that the W iron tie rod should be? The ones on the truck scale up at 1".
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
I think 1" is about right Jon. 1890s LNWR carriages were 1.5" but yours is much earlier and lighter built.

Sorry the test build is disappointing. We must compare notes sometime.

Andy, I have seen photos of trains of new horse-drawn WW1 GS wagons ex-Wolverton, presumably being transported to the army somewhere. Also a c1903 motor car being transported following an accident. Many motor manufacturers transported their cars by CCT, some even reserving one or more for their exclusive use and having them sign written, so I wouldn't be surprised if lesser manufacturers used OCTs.

Mike
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Andy, the original two SM&AR/ M&SWJR trucks are recorded (though no photograph) as a pair, carrying a load of pipes to Basingstoke on one occasion, though it's not the sort of load one would immediately think of for a carriage truck.
 

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
There is a photo c1859 of an ECR carriage truck at Harwich quayside, loaded with a four wheeled goods wagon, possibly owned by hauliers McNamara and Co. There is no indication whether this is a new wagon being delivered to them, or a loaded one being sent by rail.
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Two things, if I may.

Firstly, referring back to my post about the Holyhead photo and the truck having fixed sides. Jon's model also looks to have fixed sides and I know that end-loading was common, but the Holyhead photo shows no end loading, so how did they load and unload that car? Around the time of the photo the LNWR were (belatedly) changing to hinged sides on new OCTs.

Secondly, am I alone in despairing at the lack of detail from the NRM? This photo is an example. They are supposed to be the expert, the national point of reference and centre of excellence, yet captions like this one are bland and uninformed. I could write a page about that picture but all they tell us is what's on the negative list and that the car is loaded onto an open wagon, which it isn't - its a CARRIAGE truck. Nothing there about the railway vehicles, the car (they could look up the registration number), the lettered railway laundry baskets, the cranes, the roof construction, no facts and dates about the building. Nothing a ten year old couldn't have written.

Rant over, time for a tea break! Yes, moderate this if you wish!

Mike
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Secondly, am I alone in despairing at the lack of detail from the NRM?
No Mike, you're not alone.
Not just detail, but blatant rubbish!
This one - http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Derby&objid=1997-7397_DY_39828 -
It's a cutting torch the bloke is using, not a welder!
Or how about this one - Worker at Derby works, about 1950 - Photos - Our collection - National Railway Museum - you can clearly see the chalked words 'Cut Up' on the tender side.
Or this drawing - http://www.nrm.org.uk/ResearchAndArchive/drawing?group=Derby%20Carriage%20%26%20Wagon&objid=316 - said to be from Derby works when it is an Eastleigh drawing (SC/ES.....).

It's on my list of things to do to try to find a contact at the NRM to point out such errors, hopefully for correction. Anyone on here able to help?

Andy
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Andy,

I'm convinced you're right on the first two, but the drawing may be well placed in the Derby list. If the drawing was prepared at Eastleigh and then sent to Derby it would end up in the Derby lists. In just the same way there are a couple of Ashford drawings residing in the Swindon collection (N1 + U1 cylinder blocks) and a few LBSCR drawings in the Eastleigh lists...

I have found a few errors and helped with cataloguing drawings when I've been up to York. I've tended to find that mentioning it to the Search Engine curators as I'm there has resulted in an update to their lists. I'm less certain how one would influence their website though! I've got an ongoing issue with this at the moment - the LSWR T3 isn't at Shildon (@Rob Pulham has looked for it there) and I'd quite like to find out where it is so I could go and see it!

Steph
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
Can I ask whether any of the LBSCR drawings you have show details of the leather retaining straps, or more specifically the way they were tightened and secured?
(Or Mike's LNWR drawings?)
The M&SWJR drawing, as you can see from the details above, shows each strap has a blind hook like thing at one end to act as an anchor and the other end has holes like a belt. Presumably the strap loops over the vehicle and pulled tight. The holes would therefore need a belt- like buckle, but where would that be located?
The drawings seem to be very detailed (with the holes!) but do not show any means of using them.
Thanks
Jamie
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Not sure if these will help but the leather straps are shown. Photos show buckles on the straps and I think the end elevation shows a buckle as well. This is poor copy of an 1859 Joseph Wright drawing with lots of similarities with the previous drawings in the thread.
1859 carriage truck1.jpg 1859 carriage truck2.jpg 1859 carriage truck3.jpg
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Thanks for that. It looks as though there must be some kind of belt- like buckle on the end of each strap.
I do like these old drawings.
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
IMG_1521.JPG IMG_1522.JPG

Here is the OCT with a coat of 'Mahogany' and I'm not very happy with the way it has turned out. The whole thing is constructed from wood and I should have sealed it before any paint was applied. Having gone down the road of applying paint, there's no real hope of going back. The paint has obviously lifted the grain and given the whole thing a gritty surface. It could be that this is one piece of stock that could benefit from being weathered. You never know, it may disguise the poor paint finish :). These echo my concerns over painting the horse box.

Jon
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
A shame that you've lost the original finish. However, all is not lost, Jon.

I suggest that you rub the woodwork down and seal it. I need to check the sealant, but I think it's called B.I.N. This should provide you with a surface which will paint easily and take weathering.

If of interest I'll check the can and confirm the maker and the actual product title.

B
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I agree all's not lost.
When it's thoroughly, really thoroughly, dry, you could try lightly rubbing with fine sand/ flour paper. Not enough to remove anything like the whole paint layer, but just the raised bits of grain. The paint remaining in the grain 'crevices' will act as a sealing/ smoothing coat would, filling the grain ready for a sanding sealer if necessary, or another paint layer. (Check no unwanted interactions with old and new substances of course).
You may find the surface finish actually cuts/ rubs down readily to something that looks altogether smoother under a new topcoat. I would try it on a small discrete area first though.
Jamie
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
As I build wagons from wood, I understand the wood can start lifting a bit. What I found is a light sanding with a very fine sandpaper gets rid of the roughness, and a second coat can be applied. Results in a smooth surface almost like plastic.
Just make sure you get into the corners.
 
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