7mm Mary Jane Girls

Stumpytrain

Active Member
Note, this thread has nothing to do with Marijuana, Rick James, or indeed the group he formed of this title. ‘Mary’ and ‘Jane’ were, in more innocent times, the colloquial names of the two principle engines of the Wantage Tramway.

No. 5 ‘Jane’

A George England & Co. 0-4-0WT of 1857, preserved at the GWS Didcot. There was a serialised construction of a 7mm model by Laurie Griffin in MRJs 114 to 122 with painting by Martyn Welch covered in No.123. Amazingly the MRJ are still able to supply the accompanying castings nearly 20 years later. Apparently there have been steady sales over the years so there must be lots of models about?!

index.php


No. 7 ‘Mary’

A Manning, Wardle & Co. 0-4-0ST ‘Class F’ contractors locomotive of 1888 vintage, sadly scrapped in the 1960’s. Scratch building a 4mm scale version was serialised in the MRJ 66-70 with a rather nice plan in MRJ 6. Slaters produce a kit for the Manning Wardle F that include etchings for the Wantage Tramway’s cab as an unexpected bonus.

index.php

It’s my intention to built the two locomotives side by side in ScaleSeven, and hopefully I’ll share my efforts here. Having amassed all the bits and pieces I need I'm certainly running out of excuses to not put piercing saw blade to metal. So in summary:

No. 5 'Jane' / No. 7 'Mary'

Scratchbuilt & MRJ Castings / Slaters Kit
Wheels: Slaters 7837WT 3'1" 10 Spoke / Slaters 7832MW 2'8" 10 Spoke Manning Wardle
Axles: Slaters 1/8" X720060S converted to split axles
Hornblocks: High Level Kits 'Standard'
Frames: 0.022in Nickel Silver / 0.22in Etched Brass
Frame Spacers: Double Sided PCB
Compensation: CSB
Gearboxes: High Level Kits RoadRunner, 38:1
Motor: Canon DN16
Coupling / Connecting Rods: Mild Steel / 0.020 Etched Steel (laminated)​

I've collected every known published photograph of both locomotives. The wheels will be en route to Colin 'East Side Pilot' Dowling as soon as the scaleseven axles arrive from Slaters. I naively assumed they didn't do 1/8" ScaleSeven axles because they're not listed on their website. Colin's also doing the donkey work of producing the split axles - I was originally working to a deadline. ;)

The only controversial items I can think of are the use of split frames, and Continuous Springy Beams on an 0-4-0. I've read everything I possibly can on the latter and I'm going to give it a go.

Incidentally Mary Jane Girls 'All Night Long' is my all time favorite 12" and one of the few records that makes me wish I still djed, it sounds awesome on a club system. Maybe it's a sign? Unlikely! :thumbs:


I think that's it for now!

Cheers,
Alex
 

Attachments

  • 3272383.jpg
    3272383.jpg
    700.9 KB · Views: 236
  • 12189484_10207581687356479_4467476418882427371_o.jpg
    12189484_10207581687356479_4467476418882427371_o.jpg
    118.8 KB · Views: 235

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Alex,

If you've not tried CSB before, watch it on 0-4-0t locos. I've got a model of LSWR 'Ironside' here and its running is not good; the springs flex under drive so the loco hunts badly in response to throttle settings.

I bodged mine to get the running better (effectively removing the 'C' from the 'CSB') with a small change in the geometry. It strikes me that allowing the loco to settle deeply on the springs may be another solution, but not one I've been able to try.

Steph
 

Stumpytrain

Active Member
If you've not tried CSB before, watch it on 0-4-0t locos. I've got a model of LSWR 'Ironside' here and its running is not good; the springs flex under drive so the loco hunts badly in response to throttle settings.

Thanks Steph, there's certainly a lot of heated discussion on the pros and cons of CSBs on 0-4-0s online, especially on the Scalefour forum. I can't explain it, but I've really got a desire to give it go! Though I was won round to the benefits of compensation in 1470. Maybe bearing in mind I might have to fix the rear axle and provide a pivoting beam to the front axle if the CSB vision fails miserably would be sensible. I don't suppose you've got the capability to easily video your Ironside hunting to try and put me off perhaps?! :confused:
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Good plan. Just remember not to use either version of the drawing of Jane published in MRJ. They are both wrong, especially the cylinders. Go and measure the real thing before you start. Or there is an accurate early drawing in the Oakwood Press history of the line. Unfortunately it also means some of the castings are not right either, I replaced the cylinder ends, the dome and some others. It was written up in the S7 Newsletter around the time the MRJ articles came out.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Thanks Steph, there's certainly a lot of heated discussion on the pros and cons of CSBs on 0-4-0s online, especially on the Scalefour forum. I can't explain it, but I've really got a desire to give it go! Though I was won round to the benefits of compensation in 1470. Maybe bearing in mind I might have to fix the rear axle and provide a pivoting beam to the front axle if the CSB vision fails miserably would be sensible. I don't suppose you've got the capability to easily video your Ironside hunting to try and put me off perhaps?! :confused:

Nope, and not now it's sorted! - But I'll draw you a diagram of the 'fix' so you can allow for it when you build your frames! It certainly runs better now I've worked it out than it did when I first got it going and always a lot better than a small-wheeled 0-4-0t, which can clunk and clatter a bit on pointwork. That's the advantage of allowing the axleboxes to move up and down under the influence of a spring!

Steph
 

Stumpytrain

Active Member
Good plan. Just remember not to use either version of the drawing of Jane published in MRJ. They are both wrong, especially the cylinders. Go and measure the real thing before you start. Or there is an accurate early drawing in the Oakwood Press history of the line. Unfortunately it also means some of the castings are not right either, I replaced the cylinder ends, the dome and some others. It was written up in the S7 Newsletter around the time the MRJ articles came out.

Ah, thank you for the timely warning! I've got two weeks leave coming up so it seems I need to add a trip to Didcot to my itinerary. I hadn't spotted the errors in the MRJ plans for No.5. I wasn't aware of the articles in the S7 Newsletter either. Nos. 41 and 42 seem to cover Fraser Brown's experiences. Bedtime reading...

On the subject of inconsistency between plans and prototype. No.7 in both plan and Slater's model has her brake pull rod above the wheels, tucked under the running plate, however in all photographs it clearly runs in front the rear wheel. Presumably caused by smaller brake hangers and the brake actuating rod being level rather than climbing slightly from the brake actuating rod?

Alex
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Alex,

Given the similarities between your locos, and Steph's warning, might it be interesting to build them with different suspensions, otherwise identically, thus allowing a back-to-back trial?

I set out to do this many years ago with a 1361 ST & a 1366 PT, but so far have utterly failed to make a start on the ST. The PT has floating independent coil suspension, and required stiffer springs in the leading & trailing axles, and a very wimpish pair in the driving axle to prevent it doing a horrid impression of a nodding dog. I intended to compensate the ST, with no fixed axle, to have a direct comparison.

Best
Simon
 

Ian@StEnochs

Western Thunderer
Hi Alex,

I have 4 0-4-0 pugs in S7 which are fully sprung with individual coil springs, they all run very quietly and glide over crossings and rail joints. In every loco the loco rides on the springs, live springing, where each wheel can rise above and below datum. However they all suffer from the tendency to 'nod' when they stop. This is most noticeable on the heaviest loco, a Barclay 16", with a 5'6" wb and least on a tiny Hawthorn box tank. All 4 locos did sterling service on 'Auchlin' on the show circuit and we had very few problems with them.

Since then I have built a few more 0-4-0s and I have made them with the driving axle fixed and the other with a centre pivot giving 3 point suspension. These locos run fine and there is no difference in performance except that they are noisier and lurch noticeably when a wheel hits a track irregularity.

I have not considered csb suspension as to me it looks difficult so I will watch your progress with interest.

Ian.
 

freelance7

Western Thunderer
IMG_1541.JPG Alex,

I think you will enjoy building "Jane" I built a scale 7 example using Laurie's guide from the MRJ last year, mainly as a project to hone my scratch building skills as I had not done any modelling for a decade due to work commitments abroad. Although not yet complete, still some detailing to finish off and the pickups to sort out, it's nearly there, and should get it finished in the Autumn. On my example I seem to recall using the High level slimline hornblocks sprung, on the front axle, and a fixed axle for the rear with the small motor in the fire box. I also went the whole hog and made the inside valve motion work, as per Laurie's build article. Very tight fitting everything in though!

Here is a photo to where I have got with mine, a lot of the items are just placed on at the moment and will be fixed when I have finished getting in to detail areas.

Paul
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1541.JPG
    IMG_1541.JPG
    113.2 KB · Views: 9

freelance7

Western Thunderer
Thank you,

Had some interesting build moments, getting all the rivits spaced correctly on the back of the smokebox ring comes to mind.

Paul
 

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
Alex

You are right about the position of the brake pull rods, but have you spotted the second rod that runs behind the wheel?

There is a spacer between them just in front of the rear wheels, evidenced by the 'bolt-head'.

Steve.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
... I built a scale 7 example using Laurie's guide from the MRJ last year....

The realistic recreation of a bent front plate of the sandwich buffer beam lifts this model into a new league!
So often, miniatures of the real thing look almost too straight and perfect, with no sign of the hard working life they endured.
Buffer Beam.jpg

With regard to soft suspension causing nodding with acceleration and braking, if I recall correctly some little 0-4-0 industrials were quite 'lively' in the nodding department.

Just watched some footage ( see Home :: Media :: DVD :: Bygone Ways - The Land of Lost Content ) of a Pannier on passenger duty on a Shropshire branch line (so admittedly maybe not the best quality PW) - it was all over the shop both axially and laterally, and watching it made me wonder why I'm so concerned/obsessed about side play in 7mm!!
 
Last edited:

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Alex
To get you started, this is what I did when building Jane in original condition as delivered to the Sandy and Potton Railway using as many of the MRJ castings as suited the earlier condition. Simple three point compensation. I made the bits for the valve gear but decided decent width bearings were more important to me than slightly moving rods, and there isn't a lot of room especially with the cosmetic leaf springs within the frames. The gears are Ultrascale. Even though it was painted in November 2000 there a still some bits missing including the oil pots, and the handbrake screw has disappeared somewhere along the way. It runs very reliably with no added weight.

I recommend starting with compensation for an 0-4-0. Real 0-4-0 locos rarely glide along so a bit of jolting at bad joints is realistic. Once you get one running well then move on to springs if you want to.

Just start cutting metal, if the first try is not right just have another go. This was my second go at Jane, the first was following a drawing published years earlier in one of the other magazines which stalled when I realised that the drawing was oddly proportioned. But do go and see Jane/Shannon at Didcot. I think it is easier to build models of things you have actually seen.

GE IMG_4467.jpg
GE IMG_4470.jpg
GE IMG_4471.jpg
 

Simon

Flying Squad
That is a really lovely looking model, thank you for sharing it with us. I'll show the pictures to Laurie, I'll bet he'll be impressed.

Simon
 
Top