David Boorman
Active Member
Mick, thank you for your thoughtful analysis of your experience. I used to blame myself for everything that went wrong with certain kits.
7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
Well that's a stunning recovery: excellent work as usual.
It made me think about the DA A3 I built. I remembered the crappy boiler rolling:
but I didn't recall any issues with the firebox being too small. I have checked back and of course I don't have a suitable photo, this being the
nearest:
It doesn't appear to suffer the same malnutrition that the A2 box does.
I now know (in the wallet) how some of David's otherwise excellent designs are let down in the firebox department, as evinced by PAD's wonderful Duchess build. I wonder if he took measurements from the GA and forgot about the clothing...........
Keep up the good work!
David
It made me think about the DA A3 I built. I remembered the crappy boiler rolling:
but I didn't recall any issues with the firebox being too small. I have checked back and of course I don't have a suitable photo, this being the
nearest:
It doesn't appear to suffer the same malnutrition that the A2 box does.
I now know (in the wallet) how some of David's otherwise excellent designs are let down in the firebox department, as evinced by PAD's wonderful Duchess build. I wonder if he took measurements from the GA and forgot about the clothing...........
Keep up the good work!
David
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
It happens in 3.5” gauge too.
When I made Mons Meg, the firebox took as much time to get correct as the front.
And the cab windows needed modifying from the original shape I had made as well.
Tim
When I made Mons Meg, the firebox took as much time to get correct as the front.
And the cab windows needed modifying from the original shape I had made as well.
Tim
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Tim,
I think that A1 (2750) is correct, the first engines had the GNR cab with the raised ventilator in the centre, what's not often known is that the eaves over the side windows were higher as well, dimly recall it was 3-4" or so. When the cabs were re profiled to suit the rest of the LNER they made the ventilator lower and also lowered the whole roof.
Sadly, what tends to happen is that manufactures take the very common early A1 GA as their profile and simply lower the ventilator, which still leaves the roof and eaves too high, even worse they then add that to the A3 class.
The Gresley firebox on streamlined cabs is very hard to get right, it took a long time on the W1 to get the casing casting just so.
I think that A1 (2750) is correct, the first engines had the GNR cab with the raised ventilator in the centre, what's not often known is that the eaves over the side windows were higher as well, dimly recall it was 3-4" or so. When the cabs were re profiled to suit the rest of the LNER they made the ventilator lower and also lowered the whole roof.
Sadly, what tends to happen is that manufactures take the very common early A1 GA as their profile and simply lower the ventilator, which still leaves the roof and eaves too high, even worse they then add that to the A3 class.
The Gresley firebox on streamlined cabs is very hard to get right, it took a long time on the W1 to get the casing casting just so.
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
Problem is that it is an A3, Mick, so should have a lower cab and ventilator. It might yet get modified, but it it is probably a bit too narrow on the firebox as well and the dome is incorrect for the livery.
Tim
Tim
mickoo
Western Thunderer
David, well that boiler was straighter than mine
A3's with the non combustion chamber firebox (94) are usually easier to align at the front end because it's generally flat, the combustion chamber 107 has an extension which makes adding the corner castings and blending them in rather more problematical
I've no idea how this one is so bad, if it were user error I'm at a loss how I could of cocked it up, the base is too long once formed and had to be trimmed back so there is obviously enough material there to move that up and make it wider at the shoulders.
I think the problem (hindsight) are the rear formers, they're just too narrow, the wrapper sheet is probably usable with a lot of persuasion if the former was the right profile, it's too narrow at the base by at least a couple of mm and that may be the same up each side to the shoulder.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Tim, you are of course right
, I missed the bleedin obvious long travel valve covers and dome/viz livery, to focused on the cab 
which on closer inspection does appear to have the lower LNER profile ventilator, but clearly also has the GNR higher profile roof....re my point above.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Another week passes by and it's getting closer to delivery date.
The chimney and smoke box door are just plonked on, due to the fact that the mini flame will be needed to add the deflectors, I'm keeping anything that might melt out of the way!
Couple of further niggles and one own goal, the own goal being that I added the two pipes along the firemans side of the firebox, Blue Peter has two, most engines have one, Irish Elegance has none, guess which picture I was using as reference
So, a couple of holes and a dint in the crinoline to fill first thing tomorrow.
The niggles, the reversing reach rod cover on the drivers side of the firebox was a white metal affair, glue didn't hold it and solder just destroyed it, frankly it had the consistency of Marzipan so was pretty much junk anyway. I'll make a new one from either Plasticard or a laminate of brass.
The second niggle is the horn guide oil pots, they're supposed to be on stands with two pipes coming out of the bottom, problem is (no idea why, well I do know, the oil pots are just way too big and other errors in the kit have reduced the gap to next to '....' all) the intermediate and rear one simply do not fit in the available gap, the rear one needed the post and pipe glands removing to even just fit in the gap.
The end result was one of three choices, cut down the rear two and leave the front on the stand, cut them all down to look equal, leave them all off. I opted for the second option but may well end up doing the third.
Hopefully tomorrow the whole body shell will be complete, which leaves just four days to complete the valve gear, brakes and fashion some sort of motor mount fixing.
You'll have to excuse the general grubbiness of the material, it has tarnished badly over the last few weeks, but it is clean and smooth and that's all that really matters.
The chimney and smoke box door are just plonked on, due to the fact that the mini flame will be needed to add the deflectors, I'm keeping anything that might melt out of the way!
Couple of further niggles and one own goal, the own goal being that I added the two pipes along the firemans side of the firebox, Blue Peter has two, most engines have one, Irish Elegance has none, guess which picture I was using as reference
So, a couple of holes and a dint in the crinoline to fill first thing tomorrow.The niggles, the reversing reach rod cover on the drivers side of the firebox was a white metal affair, glue didn't hold it and solder just destroyed it, frankly it had the consistency of Marzipan so was pretty much junk anyway. I'll make a new one from either Plasticard or a laminate of brass.
The second niggle is the horn guide oil pots, they're supposed to be on stands with two pipes coming out of the bottom, problem is (no idea why, well I do know, the oil pots are just way too big and other errors in the kit have reduced the gap to next to '....' all) the intermediate and rear one simply do not fit in the available gap, the rear one needed the post and pipe glands removing to even just fit in the gap.
The end result was one of three choices, cut down the rear two and leave the front on the stand, cut them all down to look equal, leave them all off. I opted for the second option but may well end up doing the third.
Hopefully tomorrow the whole body shell will be complete, which leaves just four days to complete the valve gear, brakes and fashion some sort of motor mount fixing.
You'll have to excuse the general grubbiness of the material, it has tarnished badly over the last few weeks, but it is clean and smooth and that's all that really matters.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Once again, by hook and by crook, the fat lady has sung, whilst not 100% complete, it is complete ready for paint.
The outstanding items are back head and cab seats (fitted once back head installed) and valve gear, neither are needed for paint and other than the connecting and coupling rods not needed to get a running chassis in my experience. A couple of discreet pins a full set of valve gear can be dropped in easily.
I am also missing two front sand pipes, the kit had none and I had some excellent spare Finney7 LNER steam sanding fittings, but only four I'll procure two more tomorrow and fit after paint, they solder nicely to the spring hanger castings so come off when the springs come off to get the wheels out. A quick in and out with a hot iron and a dab of paint and it'll be over quicker than it took to write.
The tarnishing and washing in Lime Lite does tend to highlight every hint or stain of solder left on the brass, even though it's all nice and smooth.
Despite all the woes and trials, I think it's going to look pretty darn good once painted and all finished, but then I am biased toward big LNER engines
The outstanding items are back head and cab seats (fitted once back head installed) and valve gear, neither are needed for paint and other than the connecting and coupling rods not needed to get a running chassis in my experience. A couple of discreet pins a full set of valve gear can be dropped in easily.
I am also missing two front sand pipes, the kit had none and I had some excellent spare Finney7 LNER steam sanding fittings, but only four
I'll procure two more tomorrow and fit after paint, they solder nicely to the spring hanger castings so come off when the springs come off to get the wheels out. A quick in and out with a hot iron and a dab of paint and it'll be over quicker than it took to write. The tarnishing and washing in Lime Lite does tend to highlight every hint or stain of solder left on the brass, even though it's all nice and smooth.
Despite all the woes and trials, I think it's going to look pretty darn good once painted and all finished, but then I am biased toward big LNER engines
mickoo
Western Thunderer
its going to be 534 Irish Elegance hence the detail differences I smoke box door fittings and lhs firebox pipework
Richard Spoors
Western Thunderer
I like the neat detail of the AWS conduit that runs along the footplate valence on the lhs. How did you form the tiny cleats?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard, it's 0.8 mm copper wire and the clips at thin strips of 5 thou simply wrapped around it like real clips and soldered on.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
The client has chosen BR green early 60s, hence the AWS fittings.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
To conclude the A2 build before paint, a couple of images of the brake gear.
A simple affair with the whole assembly hinged at the front, the intermediate and rear hanger pivots are simple stubs that slot into the holes in the frames, lateral displacement at the rear is prevented by the etch that sticks into the brake cylinder. At the front two pieces of tube over the rod, outside the frames and inside of the hangers, have the same effect.
Whilst the rod at the front passes all the way across, it can be trimmed back if found offensive, though to be fair once the bogie is fitted it's near impossible to see.
A simple affair with the whole assembly hinged at the front, the intermediate and rear hanger pivots are simple stubs that slot into the holes in the frames, lateral displacement at the rear is prevented by the etch that sticks into the brake cylinder. At the front two pieces of tube over the rod, outside the frames and inside of the hangers, have the same effect.
Whilst the rod at the front passes all the way across, it can be trimmed back if found offensive, though to be fair once the bogie is fitted it's near impossible to see.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
On to the next project, a Martin Finney 47xx.
A meandering Sunday at the bench finds the rolling chassis complete for the tender.
Lovely Harris wheels to boot, the LHS frame is still temporarily fitted with two 6BA screws, this allows the wheels to be dropped out whilst the brake rigging is installed, once that is done then it will be soldered up like the RHS, effectively trapping the wheels for good.
Not overly sure about that myself, but the design clearly works well, I may opt for plan B and drop some inside plates down with inside bearings and some sort of method to get the wheels out, whilst disposing of the outside bearings.
The other option is to carefully trim the outer stub axles and then it may be possible to spring the frame sides apart far enough to ease the wheels out, we'll see.
I did not opt for the rocking beam solution on the good advice of fellow modellers, opting instead for fixed front and rear axle and a simple vertical movement for the centre axle.
A meandering Sunday at the bench finds the rolling chassis complete for the tender.
Lovely Harris wheels to boot, the LHS frame is still temporarily fitted with two 6BA screws, this allows the wheels to be dropped out whilst the brake rigging is installed, once that is done then it will be soldered up like the RHS, effectively trapping the wheels for good.
Not overly sure about that myself, but the design clearly works well, I may opt for plan B and drop some inside plates down with inside bearings and some sort of method to get the wheels out, whilst disposing of the outside bearings.
The other option is to carefully trim the outer stub axles and then it may be possible to spring the frame sides apart far enough to ease the wheels out, we'll see.
I did not opt for the rocking beam solution on the good advice of fellow modellers, opting instead for fixed front and rear axle and a simple vertical movement for the centre axle.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
I'll watch with considerable interest, Mick. Mine will probably follow the King Arthur and A3 (with the incorrect boiler - I know - you've already told me!) and my 47XX kit is not complete anyway at the moment as those chaps from Finney7 have nicked some bits....... In fact my tender is now on Simon's "Hall" and I picked up a new one at Kettering on Saturday.
Brian
) and my 47XX kit is not complete anyway at the moment as those chaps from Finney7 have nicked some bits....... In fact my tender is now on Simon's "Hall" and I picked up a new one at Kettering on Saturday.Brian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Mid week-ish update.
Chassis all done, I sprayed the wheels in etch primer as they were beginning to rust with all the cleaning, being captive they tend to be a one shot deal. I did consider making them removable, and you can if you ease the frames apart, but then you have to make the brake gear removable as well, there was no mandate to do so, so all fixed in it was.
The white metal axle boxes and springs/hangers were the usual white metal
, flash between the spring and axle box top required quite a bit of hacking and several springs broke off.
In the end I snapped them all off, cleaned them up and joined them back together with 1.6 mm wire, then I cut all the flimsy hanger white metal pull rods off and replaced with 0.9 mm wire. It added a few hours work but I think they look much better.
Next up is the tank shell.
A simple fold up shell fitted to the footplate, there are several overlays to go on as yet; the coal space is formed and needs dropping in once the front overlay is fitted. As is normal with Mr Finney tenders, the sloped coal space folds up perfectly with virtually no gaps.
Chassis all done, I sprayed the wheels in etch primer as they were beginning to rust with all the cleaning, being captive they tend to be a one shot deal. I did consider making them removable, and you can if you ease the frames apart, but then you have to make the brake gear removable as well, there was no mandate to do so, so all fixed in it was.
The white metal axle boxes and springs/hangers were the usual white metal
, flash between the spring and axle box top required quite a bit of hacking and several springs broke off. In the end I snapped them all off, cleaned them up and joined them back together with 1.6 mm wire, then I cut all the flimsy hanger white metal pull rods off and replaced with 0.9 mm wire. It added a few hours work but I think they look much better.
Next up is the tank shell.
A simple fold up shell fitted to the footplate, there are several overlays to go on as yet; the coal space is formed and needs dropping in once the front overlay is fitted. As is normal with Mr Finney tenders, the sloped coal space folds up perfectly with virtually no gaps.
simond
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick
it looks like metal black, which is what I use (acetone degrease, metal black, wash, dry, oil)
did you just spray the wheels (and in which case, with what) or is there some more effort involved?
cheers
Simon
it looks like metal black, which is what I use (acetone degrease, metal black, wash, dry, oil)
did you just spray the wheels (and in which case, with what) or is there some more effort involved?
cheers
Simon