7mm MOK BR Standard 4MT Tank

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 14 May 2018.

  1. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    When I built my Jinty I just used a small scrap of N/S on one side to hook under the side sheet and on the other side just a couple of short lengths of N/S wire to make a small over-centre latch. I'd been using a small box or case with something similar for a locking mechanism and thought it was a useful idea. Anyway photo's probably explain the system better than any description.

    Old Buffers Amateur Workbench

    The roof just flexes that little bit to pop the wire under the other side sheet.
     
  2. Lyndhurstman

    Lyndhurstman Western Thunderer

    Hello Peter,

    It IS looking good.

    The Collins Dictionary defines a a Work Of Art as:

    So - for me - you're bang on the money on the second of this triumvarate :)

    Cheers

    Jan
     
  3. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    OK Jan,
    You have convinced me. Lets face it, if a pile of house brick can be considered a work of art, then why not! :)

    Adrian,
    The attachment of the roof on the Jinty is a nice idea and looks to have worked well. However, as the cab sides on the MOK kit incorporate the eaves of the roof and extend for between 4 and 10 mm under the separate roof etch, it would not be possible to do it that way. In any case, I don't see the need to have the roof removable, if you can remove the floor and back plate as I have done. This allows adequate room to paint the cab interior and fit the glazing. I think its more important to have the roof fixed down tight all round, which I don't think will be possible unless it is soldered in place. Here's the access to the cab, removing the floor gives. The Solderpro gas jet gave a much better result with soldering the front and back roof seams than an electric iron would have. It burned in the confined space without going out, as those cheap pencil like gas jets do, having tried to do similar work with one in the past.
    20180926_125100.jpg

    The front and side windows will be no problem to glaze. 20180926_125321.jpg

    The rear ones will be a little tricky being recessed between the cab side and locker, but are still accessible. 20180926_125734.jpg
    These are the modifications to the cab floor to aid fitting. About 10 mm of half etch lip at the bottom of the photo was removed
    20180926_114042.jpg
    20180926_114105.jpg
    The casting (ejector control valve) on the bracket on the left hand side had to be moved up to clear the hand wheel on the reverser, as did the pipe from the bottom of the valve, but is barely noticeable through the side window.
    20180926_141501.jpg


    I did a bit more cleaning up over lunch time around the cab/bunker area. Not wishing to labour the point, I don't see how you can get this good a fixing if the roof is removable, but if Ken, Adrian or anybody else prove me wrong, then I will eat humble pie.
    20180926_132958.jpg

    The "eaves" on the cab side extend under the roof to about the top edge of the riveted disc.
    20180926_133025.jpg

    T'other side.
    20180926_133046.jpg
    A further refinement that I over looked to mention earlier, is drilling through the casting at the top of the regulator crank to give more of a "forked'' appearance to the end of the regulator rod. It doesn't bring much to the party but only took second to do , so why not? I wonder if I should shorten the spigot with a few strokes of the file. It's amazing how much solder these cruel close ups show. Mind you if the model was this big it would easy to clean it off. 20180926_133143.jpg
    Better get back to work, I've cut myself enough slack already.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  4. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Peter
    Most impressive, however a couple of thoughts. There appears to be only one injector water valve when there should be two. Same arrangement but higher and further forward. The injector steam control valve handles are normally four spoke round brass with an external peg for hitting it, when they stick shut. The vacuum ejector steam valves are mounted external to the cab on the firebox just below the tank top with the control spindles extended back through the cab. The control handles are a bakelite spigot for the small ejector and a brass handwheel for the large ejector. Sorry to cast up these things, but having got the rest so right, it seemed sensible to point these out. Whether you choose to alter them now, lets say I can understand if you don't.
    Regards
    Martin
     
  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Martin,
    No worries. Always good to know before it's painted if something need altering.
    However, I don't understand what's missing or in the wrong place. I've added all the cast fittings provided and they are more or less as per the instructions.
    20180926_141524.jpg

    There are two valves fitted to the right hand side, albeit with the lower one further forward as it is on 80002 on the KWVR. These have the "bakelite" handles you mention. Above those on a bracket is the 4 spoke handle with the peg for bashing with a hammer. I'll post some photos of 80002 when my lap top is fired up.
    20180926_141423.jpg

    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here's 80002's back plate right hand side. Clearly, I'm missing the valve with 2 handles and the flexible pipe, the rocking grate mechanism and the operating rod for the rocking grate and I assume the ash pan.

    DSCF3208.JPG


    And view of the other side.
    DSCF3206.JPG


    DSCF3207.JPG
    As far as I can what I have done is correct, but please clarify where you believe I have erred. Sorry about the inverted images, but I can't rotate them.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
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  7. mswjr

    mswjr Active Member

    All Looks spot on to me, Superb modelling
     
  8. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter

    Your first pic shows the two injector water valves, one through the splasher and one on a bracket at the rear, I think I'm correct in saying your model has only one. The handles on the injector steam valves are I believe a preservation wrong, and if indeed MOK based their kit on 80002, then they have perpetrated the error. There is a well known drawing of a generic standard class cab layout which shows these valves with a brass four spoke spigoted handwheel, unfortunately I can't find a period pic to confirm this but in my experience, albeit limited I suppose, I haven't seen this type of handle on any other std loco.
    The two part valve is for the slacker pipe and the ashpan sluice, not all locos in preservation have this, ours doesn't. You rightly point out the operating rod for the rocking grate, which is indeed used in the receptacles under the firehole door to rock the grate, the ashpan hopper doors are operated from a mechanism on the LHS of the loco between the wheels.
    The ejector steam valves differ from my loco and I wonder whether the arrangement was changed when the LHS tank filler vent position was moved forward, most definitely on ours the valves are outwith the cab.
    To suggest you have erred would be too forward, I think you have followed the available information and the kit designers intentions, and produced a rather wonderful representation, I'm perhaps being picky because I know a bit about one of them. Hope this is of help.
    Regards
    Martin
     
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  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Martin,
    No worries, I take no offence from your comments, I'm just trying to understand them. If I need to alter the backplate it's easy to do as as I can take it out with the cab floor. Certainly most of the prototype pictures in the MOK instructions are of number 02, which is a shame as my own photos are of the same loco, albeit taken most likely at least 10 years after theirs.

    Please look again at my backplate as it has two injector valves on the right hand side albeit with the upper one set behind the lower one as per number 02.

    I think I have the back plate diagram you refer to in one of my books so I'll dig it out and have a look. If anybody else can throw some light on these back plate issues please let me know.

    In the meantime I've made a start on the pick ups. For the middle and rear wheels I'm mounting them on the brackets which support the plumbing under the tanks.
    20180926_175418.jpg
    And a view from the side. The pick up is 0.5 mm phosphor bronze wire. They still need some tweeting to get the tension right but I ran out of time. The wipers for the front wheels will need more though as they will need to pass between the gap in the motion bracket and the lifting link bracket. I will also need to add a spacer between the frames to mount the copper clad and then route the pb wire up and over the frames and down to the wheels.
    Still, I'm moving closer to the end and the Finney 7 A4 is calling me!
    20180926_175357.jpg

    Cheers ,
    Peter
     
  10. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Peter
    you wrote
    I think we may be at cross purposes valve wise. Your backhead does indeed have two valves on the RHS of the firebox, these are the injector steam valves, albeit with what I think are the wrong handles. If you look at your last pic in #215 you have one rod coming up through the splasher with a 90 deg handle, which is correct however there should be another one through a bracket on the end of the splasher as shown in the first pic in #227. The last pic in #217 displays the ommission. These are the injector water valves. As I said last night a bit picky.
    Regards
    Martin
     
  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Martin,
    The penny has dropped and I now understand what you are getting at. Yes I see the missing rod and handle coming up through the floor from the injectors. I have actually drilled holes in the tank bottom for the rods from the injectors. I'll consider of I can add the missing rod and handle in the cab but it will be difficult now with the roof on.

    I think you are also correct regarding the handles on the water valves and will change them. There are quite a few photos of preserved BR tender locos and they all have the handles you mention in line with the cab drawing. 80078 has them also. Is that "yours" ? Many thanks for pointing out these issues.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  12. PaxtonP4

    PaxtonP4 Active Member

    Try these:

    DSCF3208.JPG DSCF3206.JPG
     
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  13. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Peter
    I realise that I'm the irritating know it all and I really don't want to come across as the rivet counter, I'm pleased you have understood my point, do as you see fit, it's your model and mighty fine on your part, you should be very proud of your effort. Mine is 80105 which is currently in so many pieces that I couldn't easily illustrate my point. Although now located in Scotland it never was a scottish region allocation. By contrast 80002 was a Motherwell/Polmadie/Beattock engine so had no english lodgings until preservation. I now wonder whether there might have been a change in specification for detail differences such as valve handles, I may make some enquiries.
    Kind Regards
    Martin
     
  14. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Martin,
    Not irritating at all. It's good that you are willing to share what you know about the class. This is the photo of 80078 under restoration. It clearly illustrates the points you make regarding the missing control rod and handle to the injector and has the 4 spoke handles with "bashing peg" on the water valves. I can change the handles any time but if you dig up further information please let me know.
    20180927_215600.jpg

    The pick ups are now fitted and wired up and the first test run has been made.
    20180927_191522.jpg
    20180927_191019.jpg
    20180927_191453.jpg



    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  15. Cliff Williams

    Cliff Williams Western Thunderer

    Peter it looks stunning! You have got me keen to do one of my MOK kits, but I am not opening the box until I bash life into the diesels needing finished.

    Keep it up, inspirational stuff.
     
  16. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Many thanks Cliff.

    You have MOK kits to build and haven't started one yet!

    Your willpower is to be admired, as they are an absolute joy to build.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
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  17. Cliff Williams

    Cliff Williams Western Thunderer

    Can’t decide which one to get the ball rolling...Q1 seems like a possibility....but with a few in strategic reserve I may go off on a different tack. Looks like they are up there with the Finney Duchess kits anyway.

    BW
    Cliff
     
  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Cliff,
    Having only built the Martin Finney A3 and drooled over the Finney 7 A4 kit which I have and will be my my next build, I would say they very much on a par. Some might argue that they are better, but I'm sure you will draw your own conclusions. All I can say is that after 30 years of building kit sfrom the low and mid range suppliers, both were a revelation to me and a pleasure to build.
    I hope at some point to build an F7 Duchess, but the W1 may temp me first.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  19. Cliff Williams

    Cliff Williams Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter if you do decide to do the Finney Duchess then take a look at my build on them in the Gazette archives. If you cannot find it I could always do an updated version of it for WT.
     
  20. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Cliff,
    Yes I remember the article well. Definitely a reference work for building the kit and it will be perused again along with Richard Lambert's build on here, should I take the plunge at some point.

    I recall you used a rather niffty method to solder coal pusher castings to the bunker base. A really nice piece of work.
    Cheers ,
    Peter
     
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