7mm MOK BR Standard 4MT Tank
- Thread starter P A D
- Start date
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Ken,
Look forward to seeing your progress.
I've discovered another etched part not mentioned in the instructions. If you look at the prototype photos, you will see that the water valve on the side of the fire box is on a backing plate. I found it on the etchings near the parts for the AWS protection plate. I'll check and let you know the number. You cannot see it on the photo I posted due to the lighting and reflections, but it's visible in the flesh. It's tricky to solder so I fitted the valve to the plate, then clamped it in the vice while I added the pipe work. I then lined it up on the fire box and soldered the two vertical pipes to the lower edge of the firebox side. After checking the valve was level, I then held it against the fire box using a piece of coffee stirrer and carefully soldered the backing plate to mounting lug on the fire box. I did it OK with 145, but it might safer to tin the backing plate and then use 70 degree solder.
Cheers,
Peter
Look forward to seeing your progress.
I've discovered another etched part not mentioned in the instructions. If you look at the prototype photos, you will see that the water valve on the side of the fire box is on a backing plate. I found it on the etchings near the parts for the AWS protection plate. I'll check and let you know the number. You cannot see it on the photo I posted due to the lighting and reflections, but it's visible in the flesh. It's tricky to solder so I fitted the valve to the plate, then clamped it in the vice while I added the pipe work. I then lined it up on the fire box and soldered the two vertical pipes to the lower edge of the firebox side. After checking the valve was level, I then held it against the fire box using a piece of coffee stirrer and carefully soldered the backing plate to mounting lug on the fire box. I did it OK with 145, but it might safer to tin the backing plate and then use 70 degree solder.
Cheers,
Peter
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Thanks Peter, I'd been putting that off till later as I couldn't work it out from the instructions, part number would be most useful.
When talking to Dave yesterday I suggested showing the the etched part numbers in the instructions similar to the castings, he was worried that, if copied from the CAD drawings, they be filched by someone else. He is a very amenable person to talk to, I just wanted the crankpin replacement but we ended up chatting for about 40 mins.
Ken
When talking to Dave yesterday I suggested showing the the etched part numbers in the instructions similar to the castings, he was worried that, if copied from the CAD drawings, they be filched by someone else. He is a very amenable person to talk to, I just wanted the crankpin replacement but we ended up chatting for about 40 mins.
Ken
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Ken,
Maybe he could at least add a parts list for the etchings as Finney 7 do???
The backing plate for the water valve is on this sheet.
I've cropped it and rather crudely marked it on here. The resolution is too poor to see the number, but I'll check it when I can and let you know.
I agree, Dave Sharp is very amenable and willing to chat in detail about his kits.
Cheers,
Peter
Maybe he could at least add a parts list for the etchings as Finney 7 do???
The backing plate for the water valve is on this sheet.
I've cropped it and rather crudely marked it on here. The resolution is too poor to see the number, but I'll check it when I can and let you know.
I agree, Dave Sharp is very amenable and willing to chat in detail about his kits.
Cheers,
Peter
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Peter
When I read your post about the water valve on the side of the firebox, I had some difficulty in working out what it might be so I back tracked to the relevant picture.For info it's actually the steam heat control and pressure reducing valve.
Regards
Martin
When I read your post about the water valve on the side of the firebox, I had some difficulty in working out what it might be so I back tracked to the relevant picture.For info it's actually the steam heat control and pressure reducing valve.
Regards
Martin
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
Thanks for the correction. I didn't have the instructions to hand when I wrote the post and took a guess at what it was called. I've been meaning to check it.
Cheers,
Peter
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Martin,
As I expected, you are correct. On the castings list, it is listed as the train steam heat valve.
Ken, here's a close up view of where the backing plate is located on the fret. It is part number 142.
And a close up view of the valve and plate. I see there is a blob of solder on the thin pipe running into the cab, that needs scraping off.
Cheers,
Peter
As I expected, you are correct. On the castings list, it is listed as the train steam heat valve.
Ken, here's a close up view of where the backing plate is located on the fret. It is part number 142.
And a close up view of the valve and plate. I see there is a blob of solder on the thin pipe running into the cab, that needs scraping off.
Cheers,
Peter
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Thanks Peter, I will put it in a little bag with the relevant castings.
I notice the tank strap socket on the firebox doesn't quite line up with the fitting on the tank top, I've had the same issue. I wonder whether strap was allowed to pivot around the outer hole to allow for boiler/firebox expansion, that will be my explanation anyway.
Ken
I notice the tank strap socket on the firebox doesn't quite line up with the fitting on the tank top, I've had the same issue. I wonder whether strap was allowed to pivot around the outer hole to allow for boiler/firebox expansion, that will be my explanation anyway.
Ken
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Peter Ken
Both of you are making a superb job, there is much to admire in your efforts. The tank stiffening straps are certainly pivoted, but I think generally they are more or less at 90 deg to the tanks. I think there may be a pic in the lot I posted at the beginning of the year.
Regards
Martin
Both of you are making a superb job, there is much to admire in your efforts. The tank stiffening straps are certainly pivoted, but I think generally they are more or less at 90 deg to the tanks. I think there may be a pic in the lot I posted at the beginning of the year.
Regards
Martin
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
P A D
Western Thunderer
Continuing with the tank top detail I have added the pipe clamps, 4 on the left hand side and 1 on the right. The bases on the left side clamps were far too thick, so to file them down, I threaded them on to a drill bit to prevent them being crushed in the vice.
The clamps have mounting on both sides, but they need to be located on the inner edge of the tank tops, so one mount was removed. Here they are ready to be attached.
I also found some more mystery etchings. The two lower parts, numbers 183 and 184, are not mentioned in the instructions. They are the inner linings for the cab walls and here 183 already has the fireman's tip up seat attached. The cab floor and brake pedestal attached can also be seen in this view.
In this view the boiler back plate is now soldered in place.
Here the cab lining on the driver's side has been added, along with the seat and pedestal for the reversing mechanism.
And the fireman's side with the floor and back plate in place.
After finally fitting the firebox and boiler to the main body section, the manifold, pipework and whistle have been fitted. The lagged pipe was made by clamping a length of copper wire in the pin vice and then turning it on the edge of the bench, with a Stanley knife blade held against it diagonally, creating a spiral groove. There are other ways of doing it but this is quick and simple to do.
A view from the front.
And a view of the steam heating valve. It's not easy to see, but the large vertical pipe at the front is also "lagged".
With the soldering together of the main body components, the steam pipes have now been added. The clamp for the pipe to the steam lance cock csn also bee seen ag the front of the tank.
And a view of the completed body. The pipe work clamps along the tank top can be seen.
Here's a view of the underside.
And back on the chassis.
Just the steam lance cock, brake and steam heating pipes needed to complete the front end detail. After fitting the etched lamp irons to the front running plate, I found 3 Peter Roles cast ones that I did not realise I had.
And a gratuitous broadside shot.
Cheers ,
Peter
The clamps have mounting on both sides, but they need to be located on the inner edge of the tank tops, so one mount was removed. Here they are ready to be attached.
I also found some more mystery etchings. The two lower parts, numbers 183 and 184, are not mentioned in the instructions. They are the inner linings for the cab walls and here 183 already has the fireman's tip up seat attached. The cab floor and brake pedestal attached can also be seen in this view.
In this view the boiler back plate is now soldered in place.
Here the cab lining on the driver's side has been added, along with the seat and pedestal for the reversing mechanism.
And the fireman's side with the floor and back plate in place.
After finally fitting the firebox and boiler to the main body section, the manifold, pipework and whistle have been fitted. The lagged pipe was made by clamping a length of copper wire in the pin vice and then turning it on the edge of the bench, with a Stanley knife blade held against it diagonally, creating a spiral groove. There are other ways of doing it but this is quick and simple to do.
A view from the front.
And a view of the steam heating valve. It's not easy to see, but the large vertical pipe at the front is also "lagged".
With the soldering together of the main body components, the steam pipes have now been added. The clamp for the pipe to the steam lance cock csn also bee seen ag the front of the tank.
And a view of the completed body. The pipe work clamps along the tank top can be seen.
Here's a view of the underside.
And back on the chassis.
Just the steam lance cock, brake and steam heating pipes needed to complete the front end detail. After fitting the etched lamp irons to the front running plate, I found 3 Peter Roles cast ones that I did not realise I had.
And a gratuitous broadside shot.
Cheers ,
Peter
farnetti
Western Thunderer
Peter, this is looking fabulous, far better than my effort.
I like your solution to the lagged pipes, I was going to use a thin overlay.
On the issue of left over etched parts, I sill have 253 x 4 (which I thought might fit in the mudhole locations but don't seem to), 198, 011 x 6, 059, 204 (which, I suspect, is going to be blindingly obvious soon), 188 similarly also, 159 x 2, 251 x 2, 200 x 2, 208 x 2, 275 x 1, and finally, 2 half etched strip with 8 rivets.
I tried mine at the local club layout (using hands, no electrical stuff yet) on an S7 layout with a stiff gradient top out and the pony truck kept derailing.
There is a bracket on top as seen here which may impede downward movement. I assumed the top of the bracket sat above the chassis member as, otherwise, the front driving axle left the ground and it wouldn't go around curves. I have eased it a bit and will try it again soon.
Ken
I like your solution to the lagged pipes, I was going to use a thin overlay.
On the issue of left over etched parts, I sill have 253 x 4 (which I thought might fit in the mudhole locations but don't seem to), 198, 011 x 6, 059, 204 (which, I suspect, is going to be blindingly obvious soon), 188 similarly also, 159 x 2, 251 x 2, 200 x 2, 208 x 2, 275 x 1, and finally, 2 half etched strip with 8 rivets.
I tried mine at the local club layout (using hands, no electrical stuff yet) on an S7 layout with a stiff gradient top out and the pony truck kept derailing.
There is a bracket on top as seen here which may impede downward movement. I assumed the top of the bracket sat above the chassis member as, otherwise, the front driving axle left the ground and it wouldn't go around curves. I have eased it a bit and will try it again soon.
Ken
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Ken,
Many thanks for the compliments. Yes, the pipe lagging method is very effective, quick and simple. You don't have any wrapping of tape or wire etc., and as there is no soldering involved there is no cleaning up to do.
On the unidentified etch parts:-
253 x 4. I also thought they might be for the mud hole locations, but did not see any point in using them. Interesting that they don't fit.
198, 011, 059, 204 188, 159, 251, 200, 208 and 275, l don't recognise without checking the instructions. I'll have a look and see what I make of them.
The 2 half etched strip with 8 rivets I have seen, but I have no clue as to what are for.
The bracket on top of the bogie is to support the front end when the model is lifted off the track. It's relatively heavy and without it the pivot would most likely come adrift over time. On mine the bogie can move up and down slightly which is enough to allow it cope with any undulations in the track. If you place your model on a glass plate, can the bogie be slid from side to side easily? If not the bracket may be catching on the edge of the chassis member.
I have been pressing on with the body detail and have now added the vacuum ejector and pipe work along the top of the left hand tank. Here's where it is so far. There is another small pipe to add to finish it.
Here's the pipe run along the top of the tank. I cocked up by adding the brackets earlier, as I needed to broach the holes to get 3 x 0.6mm copper wire through. I had to take them off to broach them and refit.
The tank straps have also been added along with the regulator rod.
On the other side, I have fitted the steam lance feeder pipe along with the lance cock. The two securing brackets are hand made as they are not included.
As far I can tell from photos, the pipe disappears down the inside of the tank part way along. There may be variations on that, but that's what I've gone with. You can just see the "lagging" on the forward pipe on the steam heating valve. It's not as good as the one on the steam manifold, but I can't easily get it if now. Tank straps also fitted. On the fire iron brackets, I would suggest replacing the etched part with something made from suitable waste etch. The parts are half efched to make the "u" bends and although I reinforced the bends with a fillet of solder, they are vulnerable to knocks and broke both arms on the front one and the outer arm on the rear. I have replaced them by drilling and inserting strips of waste etch. Maybe I'm just a clumsy git and really they are fine.
Here's a better view of the completed body after soldering up the sub assemblies.
And back on the chassis.
It really is a superb kit, with in the main, excellent instructions. It's a shame they go AWOL from time to time on some of the etched parts. I liked the Martin Finney instruction on the A3, so it will be interesting to see how Finney 7 have improved them, when I get around to building the A4.
Cheers,
Peter
Many thanks for the compliments. Yes, the pipe lagging method is very effective, quick and simple. You don't have any wrapping of tape or wire etc., and as there is no soldering involved there is no cleaning up to do.
On the unidentified etch parts:-
253 x 4. I also thought they might be for the mud hole locations, but did not see any point in using them. Interesting that they don't fit.
198, 011, 059, 204 188, 159, 251, 200, 208 and 275, l don't recognise without checking the instructions. I'll have a look and see what I make of them.
The 2 half etched strip with 8 rivets I have seen, but I have no clue as to what are for.
The bracket on top of the bogie is to support the front end when the model is lifted off the track. It's relatively heavy and without it the pivot would most likely come adrift over time. On mine the bogie can move up and down slightly which is enough to allow it cope with any undulations in the track. If you place your model on a glass plate, can the bogie be slid from side to side easily? If not the bracket may be catching on the edge of the chassis member.
I have been pressing on with the body detail and have now added the vacuum ejector and pipe work along the top of the left hand tank. Here's where it is so far. There is another small pipe to add to finish it.
Here's the pipe run along the top of the tank. I cocked up by adding the brackets earlier, as I needed to broach the holes to get 3 x 0.6mm copper wire through. I had to take them off to broach them and refit.
The tank straps have also been added along with the regulator rod.
On the other side, I have fitted the steam lance feeder pipe along with the lance cock. The two securing brackets are hand made as they are not included.
As far I can tell from photos, the pipe disappears down the inside of the tank part way along. There may be variations on that, but that's what I've gone with. You can just see the "lagging" on the forward pipe on the steam heating valve. It's not as good as the one on the steam manifold, but I can't easily get it if now. Tank straps also fitted. On the fire iron brackets, I would suggest replacing the etched part with something made from suitable waste etch. The parts are half efched to make the "u" bends and although I reinforced the bends with a fillet of solder, they are vulnerable to knocks and broke both arms on the front one and the outer arm on the rear. I have replaced them by drilling and inserting strips of waste etch. Maybe I'm just a clumsy git and really they are fine.
Here's a better view of the completed body after soldering up the sub assemblies.
And back on the chassis.
It really is a superb kit, with in the main, excellent instructions. It's a shame they go AWOL from time to time on some of the etched parts. I liked the Martin Finney instruction on the A3, so it will be interesting to see how Finney 7 have improved them, when I get around to building the A4.
Cheers,
Peter
P A D
Western Thunderer
After checking the parts mentioned by Ken, I am still no wiser as to what they may be for. As far as I can tell, I havn't missed any parts from the work done so far, so for now I'll just press on.
In the last post I referred to the part next to the left hand steam pipe as the vacuum ejector. I note in the parts list that it is listed as the evacuator, which is a term I've not heard before.
Anyway, to complete the pipe work on the thingy next to the left hand steam pipe, I had to scratch build a couple of pipe unions, one straight and the other a T junction. All this scratch building of parts not included. Bloody awful kit this! Here they are read for fitting.
And fitted to the thingy. The cast bracket just behind the smoke box front edge, that supports the running plate on the real thing, has also been added. It loops under the running plate, so I was able to just solder it underneath and not have to clean up on the smoke box.
And the support bracket on t'other side.
More scratch building. I finally added a representation of the slacking pipe and cover.
Apart from the cinder guards, brake and steam heating pipes, that completes the external work on the body, so I've gone back to the chassis and added the sanding pipe brackets, the brackets for the pipe runs under the tanks, and the two plates above the sand boxes. Here's the left side
And the right side.
And a surreal view from above.
Cheers,
Peter
In the last post I referred to the part next to the left hand steam pipe as the vacuum ejector. I note in the parts list that it is listed as the evacuator, which is a term I've not heard before.
Anyway, to complete the pipe work on the thingy next to the left hand steam pipe, I had to scratch build a couple of pipe unions, one straight and the other a T junction. All this scratch building of parts not included. Bloody awful kit this! Here they are read for fitting.
And fitted to the thingy. The cast bracket just behind the smoke box front edge, that supports the running plate on the real thing, has also been added. It loops under the running plate, so I was able to just solder it underneath and not have to clean up on the smoke box.
And the support bracket on t'other side.
More scratch building. I finally added a representation of the slacking pipe and cover.
Apart from the cinder guards, brake and steam heating pipes, that completes the external work on the body, so I've gone back to the chassis and added the sanding pipe brackets, the brackets for the pipe runs under the tanks, and the two plates above the sand boxes. Here's the left side
And the right side.
And a surreal view from above.
Cheers,
Peter
adrian
Flying Squad
Beautiful work again - I tried to do the same on my build and actually drill the holes in the slacking pipe. However after a couple of broken drills I gave up. I've decided to just fit a pipe as you've done then once painted I'll add a few small black dots of paint along the pipe to give the impression of the holes.
P A D
Western Thunderer
Hi Adrian,
I don't know what size wire you tried using, but I've used 0.5 mm brass. Just for fun, I clamped a piece in the vice just below the top edges and then "center" popped some marks along its length. The 5 or 6 to the right don't look too bad and with a little practice I think I could make a better job. However, holding this against the model and viewing from about 12 inches or so, they are barely visible. Placed under the angle guard, I think they would be invisible, so I will leave it as it is. To drill the centre pops you would need a very small drill, but it might be possible. Incidentally, how is your model progressing?
Cheers,
Peter
P A D
Western Thunderer
Next up the coupling rods. Having built the chassis and compensation without having assembled the rods, it's time to find out how good Mr. Sharp's design is. Here are the parts after snipping off the fret. The outer and middle laminates are tabbed together and are folded as shown
second from the top. The top laminates go on the inside. These are for the left hand side. The front boss allows for the Slaters' bush to be inset if fitted in reverse, so it's wise to ream the hole in the outer laminate, to ensure the bush can rotate before folding and soldering.
Here they are after soldering, before the outer end bosses were added.
And after the bosses and "corks" have been added to the oil pots. The piece of waste etch at the top was used for setting the length of the wire used for the corks. After soldering the wire into the hole in the pot, the tab with the small hole is placed over the wire, side cutters are then pressed down on top, and the wire is snipped. The end is then filed before the "jig" is removed. The extension on the front rod is a single etch so not possible to drill to add a cork, but I'll come to that later.
For the joint, the kit provides a steel rivet to insert through the fork. I never liked this method of joining rods in 4mm, and it is certainly not good enough for 7mm.
On the real thing, the rods are joined by a bolt with a castellated nut and washer on the outside. A 12 BA cheese head screw was just the right size for the holes in the rods, but the nut looked too big. Therefore, I drilled and tapped a 14 BA nut to 12 BA and before fitting, I clamped it in the pin vise and "castellated" by sawing across the flat faces of the hex nut at 90 degrees to the flats (more or less). That of course gives six cuts when there should be eight, but hey, who's counting from 12 inches? I'm not sure if it can be seen in this photo, but for the cork in the joint, I sawed a groove in the pot with the piercing saw, widened it with the razor saw and a strip of emery paper, then soldered in a length of 0.5 mm wire, snipped to length and filed up. I used 0.6 mm wire in the thicker pots. Here are the rods after completion with the cast connecting rods fettled up. Not perfect but they will pass muster.
Here are the wheels with the crank pins, fastenings and return cranks fitted. Left side at the top, right side at the bottom. Fort the front and middle wheels I've tapped out the holes to 10 BA and used 10 BA bolts. The front bush has been tapped 10 BA to fit in reverse and the middle bushes are drilled to clear 10 BA as the return crank screws on. For the rear wheels I've stuck with the Slaters' 12 BA fitting.
And finally a quick trial of the wheels in the chassis. I did not have time try the rods, but there was no point as the wheels won't spin. Plonker that I am, I used cheese head screws for all the wheels and the head catches on the rivet detail on the frames. If I'd checked after the front set were done, I could have changed to counter sunk for the others and only had to re-do the front set. Now I have to change all six!
Cheers,
Peter
second from the top. The top laminates go on the inside. These are for the left hand side. The front boss allows for the Slaters' bush to be inset if fitted in reverse, so it's wise to ream the hole in the outer laminate, to ensure the bush can rotate before folding and soldering.
Here they are after soldering, before the outer end bosses were added.
And after the bosses and "corks" have been added to the oil pots. The piece of waste etch at the top was used for setting the length of the wire used for the corks. After soldering the wire into the hole in the pot, the tab with the small hole is placed over the wire, side cutters are then pressed down on top, and the wire is snipped. The end is then filed before the "jig" is removed. The extension on the front rod is a single etch so not possible to drill to add a cork, but I'll come to that later.
For the joint, the kit provides a steel rivet to insert through the fork. I never liked this method of joining rods in 4mm, and it is certainly not good enough for 7mm.
On the real thing, the rods are joined by a bolt with a castellated nut and washer on the outside. A 12 BA cheese head screw was just the right size for the holes in the rods, but the nut looked too big. Therefore, I drilled and tapped a 14 BA nut to 12 BA and before fitting, I clamped it in the pin vise and "castellated" by sawing across the flat faces of the hex nut at 90 degrees to the flats (more or less). That of course gives six cuts when there should be eight, but hey, who's counting from 12 inches? I'm not sure if it can be seen in this photo, but for the cork in the joint, I sawed a groove in the pot with the piercing saw, widened it with the razor saw and a strip of emery paper, then soldered in a length of 0.5 mm wire, snipped to length and filed up. I used 0.6 mm wire in the thicker pots. Here are the rods after completion with the cast connecting rods fettled up. Not perfect but they will pass muster.
Here are the wheels with the crank pins, fastenings and return cranks fitted. Left side at the top, right side at the bottom. Fort the front and middle wheels I've tapped out the holes to 10 BA and used 10 BA bolts. The front bush has been tapped 10 BA to fit in reverse and the middle bushes are drilled to clear 10 BA as the return crank screws on. For the rear wheels I've stuck with the Slaters' 12 BA fitting.
And finally a quick trial of the wheels in the chassis. I did not have time try the rods, but there was no point as the wheels won't spin. Plonker that I am, I used cheese head screws for all the wheels and the head catches on the rivet detail on the frames. If I'd checked after the front set were done, I could have changed to counter sunk for the others and only had to re-do the front set. Now I have to change all six!
Cheers,
Peter
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Peter Cross
Western Thunderer
I like your idea for that castellated nut. I may well borrow that.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
Peter
Return crank fixing, your obviously doing the LNER version which the earlier engines had, does the kit allow for the LMS pattern?
Regards
Martin
Return crank fixing, your obviously doing the LNER version which the earlier engines had, does the kit allow for the LMS pattern?
Regards
Martin