MSWJR 2-4-0 locos - scope for a 7mm scale model?

Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Do any of you guys know whether there are any GAs or other drawings available from any source for this small class of locos?

I was wondering if there was a 7mm scale kit (it appears not) so my only recourse now would be scratchbuilding, which would require some good drawings.

I'm also mindful that the class seems to have been built by Dubs and were bought pretty much 'off the peg' so I wonder whether other railways may have had similar locos, if so I can try looking for kits or drawings of those.

As an alternative thought, were the rebuilt/reboilered locos given a standard Swindon-pattern boiler or a one-off?  If the former, what other classes used this boiler and fittings that might make a suitable starting point/timesaver for a kit or conversion?

I'm making an assumption that the tenders for these locos were the original MSWJR/Dubs ones and that they weren't replaced with GWR versions - is this correct?

I apologise for the 20-questions approach.  I'm starting to get my head round the way the GWR did things and starting from a very low level of knowledge.  I'd appreciate any help or references you feel able to provide or point me to.

Very many thanks,

Steph (off to amble through a few pages of Google references...)
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
Steph Dale said:
Do any of you guys know whether there are any GAs or other drawings available from any source for this small class of locos?

I was wondering if there was a 7mm scale kit (it appears not) so my only recourse now would be scratchbuilding, which would require some good drawings.

I'm also mindful that the class seems to have been built by Dubs and were bought pretty much 'off the peg' so I wonder whether other railways may have had similar locos, if so I can try looking for kits or drawings of those.

As an alternative thought, were the rebuilt/reboilered locos given a standard Swindon-pattern boiler or a one-off?  If the former, what other classes used this boiler and fittings that might make a suitable starting point/timesaver for a kit or conversion?

I'm making an assumption that the tenders for these locos were the original MSWJR/Dubs ones and that they weren't replaced with GWR versions - is this correct?

I apologise for the 20-questions approach.  I'm starting to get my head round the way the GWR did things and starting from a very low level of knowledge.  I'd appreciate any help or references you feel able to provide or point me to.

Very many thanks,

Steph (off to amble through a few pages of Google references...)
Click to expand...
Another one for me  :)
There is no kit I am aware of. They were very much 'Swindonised' the final boiler was (I think) the same as a Dean goods, the tender was original with GWR fittings. Again I have loads of pictures and the appropriate volume of the RCTS. I think you will find the majority of the castings that you need are easily available from the usual suspects.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Cynric,
I must admit I was fairly hopeful about the fittings, recognising that Springside, Hobbyhorse, Laurie Griffin, Slater's, etc. between them seem to do a good range.  I'm very happy bashing out the platework, so that would just leave finding the drawings.
I had a look through the NRM/OPC microfiche list this evening and couldn't find them easily, so will just have to keep my eyes open.  The strange thing is that I've seen the odd model or two of them on my travels, so I assume the info is out there somewhere...
Steph
 
G

Graham Powell

Guest
Hi, As far as I know there is no kit. There are few kits for MSWJR locos. I've always thought that they would make very nice models. I'm surprised that the 4-4-4 , 0-4-4 and 2-6-0 have not been done as kits though I have a suspicion that Mega kits did the 2-6-0. I don't use GA drawings for my models just an outline drawing or even work from photographs.  Boiler mountings you could possibly get from Laurie Griffin though I like to make my own from brass rod. Biggest snag to the scratchbuilder i can see is the lack of suitable tender axleguards and possibly buffers though the Slaters Dean/Churchward ones may have been fitted at some stage. There is a photo of one of the 2-4-0's built by Tony Reynalds in one of Guy Williams' Loco building books. It was made in 4mm scale.  You sometimes see 7mm models of the 4-4-0 with the GWR taper boiler so I wonder if somewhere there is/was a kit for that one. There are 4mm drawings in Russell's book by the way.....
Anyway best of luck with it. Look forward to seeing the completed model.rgds
Graham Powell
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
The late Norman Pattenden built one in S: I have re-read his article on it, but he does not mention a drawing. However, there are at least 3 possible sources:
Dubs, who built the locos, became part of the North British Locomotive Company, and a drawing if it exists could reside in Glasgow museum (I vaguely recall mention being made of the Mitchell library some years ago - probably best to give them a phone call (for GWR modifications you would need to make your own drawing from the basic dimensions plus photos);
I presume there may be a drawing in the relevant volume on the MSWJR by Mike Barnsley?
Finally, is there not a weight diagram or similar in the OPC Absorbed Engines book?

Knowing Norman's thoroughness, he probably had a copy of the works drawing.

If you know someone who is a member of the South Western Circle, they could probably put you in touch with someone with all the contacts you would need.

You can also try this place to see if you can get some names to talk to.

Number 10 still exists, and was running at Railex in May:
 

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S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
Just to update on this, but over the weekend there was a copy of Barnsley's book being sold second hand (for ?20) at the Uckfield exhibition.
I had a quick look through: it does have drawings of the 2-4-0, but in MSWJR condition.
However, this would provide the basic dimensions, onto which you need to superimpose the GWR boiler to get the loco on its later (still attractive, but not as pretty) condition.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Simon,

Thanks for taking the time to have a look for me.  I was wondering whether the drawings are copies of the GAs, or external outline views?

Steph
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
A couple of things have recently led me to look again at this model.  I could do with a little help from some of you guys who've been doing this a bit longer than I have...

I'm looking at chassis set up.  From front to back we have;
Front (non-driven) axle, I'm assuming from photos that this is in a radial box on the prototype.
Front driving axle, on the model (as on the prototype) this will be a crank axle with valvegear hanging off it, so no sideplay in 7mm FS.
Rear driving axle, on the model this will be the driven wheelset.

Wheelbase is (front:rear): 7'7" + 8'

So as I can see it I have a couple of options for chassis set up:
1. As my 2251; sideplay on axles 1 and 3, beams between axles 2 and 3. Rocking front axle
2. Reduce sideplay on driven wheels and fit loco with a working front radial truck.  Still with multi-beam compensation. 

Which do you prefer and why?  I could do with something to think about....  :))

Oh, and is there a ready source of a GSWR 2600g Manson tender in 7mm? I can't think of one.

Just wonderin'

Steph
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
Steph Dale said:
I'm looking at chassis set up.  From front to back we have;
Front (non-driven) axle, I'm assuming from photos that this is in a radial box on the prototype.
Front driving axle, on the model (as on the prototype) this will be a crank axle with valvegear hanging off it, so no sideplay in 7mm FS.
Click to expand...
Allowing sideplay here would have been the easiest option. :)
Rear driving axle, on the model this will be the driven wheelset.

Wheelbase is (front:rear): 7'7" + 8'

So as I can see it I have a couple of options for chassis set up:
1. As my 2251; sideplay on axles 1 and 3, beams between axles 2 and 3.
Click to expand...
You could easily get boxing with this setup, particularly in 0FS, where there is quite a bit of slop in the track/wheel standards.
Rocking front axle
2. Reduce sideplay on driven wheels and fit loco with a working front radial truck.  Still with multi-beam compensation. 
Click to expand...
It may not have been a radial truck: it may simply have been allowed some sideply, for instance on the Beyer, Peacock 2-4-0s built for the H&BR, the leading axle was allowed 3/4" sideplay.

Given the amount of clearance between the wheel flanges and the rails in 0FS, I woudl have thought that a limited amount of sideplay on the leading axle is all you need - and you may not even need that, depending on your curvature.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Thanks Simon,

With 6' radius curves I'm sure I'll get by with a little sideplay and have done with it.  So that little problem is now solved.

Next thing is to find out a bit more about the motion, before I start working up any drawings.

Getting there, but it's not going to be a particularly quick project...

Steph
 
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