New Dapol O Gauge Wagons

[Steph Dale]

What period of Stephenson Clarke wagons do you want? There was a time in the early C20 when SC wagons were a very distinctive design having two sets of diagonal strapping, the outside being as normal, the inside set running in the opposite direction making a cross. Later of course they adopted the 1923 RCH 'standard' design though even there there were differences between makers.

If you're going for the later period then these wagons will probably be suitable - but adding the capping strip is a small step that will add a lot to the realism. Judging by your excellent scratch-built coaches you wouldn't want anything less

Richard

Richard,

It'd be post WW2 - I've got the odd picture of SC-liveried wagons in use through to the mid-fifties.

I'll have a look/think about the capping strip; thank you for the thoughts on the carriages.

Incidentally I've just checked and both Powsides and Parkside Dundas are listing their SC wagons as available again. Maybe time to get an order in there and have done with it!

Steph

 

[Wagonman]

Richard,

It'd be post WW2 - I've got the odd picture of SC-liveried wagons in use through to the mid-fifties.

I'll have a look/think about the capping strip; thank you for the thoughts on the carriages.

Incidentally I've just checked and both Powsides and Parkside Dundas are listing their SC wagons as available again. Maybe time to get an order in there and have done with it!

Steph

Might be the better way to go!

Sometimes in post war days wagons were fitted with retaining brackets to keep the capping strip in place...

 

[Adrian B.Swain]

Hi all, Just come across this site and read the previous contributors comments. What a shame there is so much
criticism and yet nobody has mentioned the superb packaging you get with these wagons. I feel the packaging
must be worth nearly £30 of the price simply because the previous correspondents have, sadly, only mentioned a small fraction of the errors to be found on these models which in my opinion makes them worth about £9 (for the wheels and couplings)
I doubt the moderator will allow me the space to list all the errors but I have found about 40 so far, which compares with perhaps 4 or 5 on the competition's kits. Nobody is perfecr but this certainly puts them in a league
of their own, about 3rd division I would estimate compared with the Premier league. Someone said "It costs just as much to make something right as wrong" Sorry! it costs MORE to make it wrong because you have to do a series of new designs and drawings instead of using the freely available original correct data.
Assuming the original pre-pro pictures were of real models and not CGI they have already thrown away
one lot of design developments and possibly some expensive tooling, and still finished up with little better.
This does not augur at all well for future models and may well worry those who have placed advance orders
or already bought some of the available wagons. The 5 planks in this series appear to be a completely fictional
design and the liveries are all from wagons of different eras, dimensions and designs. The 8 planks are nearly
as bad with seriously incorrect dimensions, hoplessly inaccurate brakegear ( which applies to all the models),
the wrong solebar design and in some cases liveries which are on the wrong wagon design. The 7 planks also
suffer from some detail and dimensional errors, the same brakegear and solebar errors and some livery anomalies.
It seems the "Big boys" spend lots of money on packaging and advertising whilst spending less money than
the "Kitchen table" manufacturers on making accurate models. Unfortunately about 75% or more of O
gauge modellers will be satisfied with these models because they are cheap and RTR and this "Toy train"
brigade will ensure Dapol's success and may well lead to the demise of more conscientious manufacturers.

 

[BrushType4]

Adrian, welcome to WT. A lenghly first post, but why do you doubt that the moderator will allow you space to list the 40 errors you've found so far? If you've found em, list em, and better still post some suggestions to correct em.

Also post pictures, we like pictures on this forum.

 

[djparkins]

If you've found em, list em, and better still post some suggestions to correct em.

Phil -

I think this might be missing the deeper point behind Adrian's posting - the clue perhaps is in the last sentence of his posting.

If you have that many errors in a 'model' are you not better off starting with a kit? Posting 'fixes' to errors in RTR wagons is surely akin to contructing our own hanging posts for the likes of Adrian or myself.

Look how I was 'corrected' on here when I pointed out some weeks ago that there might well be a fair amount of 'dumbing down' of detail [and elimination of some altogether] on the forthcoming 35ton tank wagons from Heljan - and how galling this was when we spent all the time we did getting all that detail into our own kits of these wagons.

It might just be that a lot of you want this stuff so much in RTR form that you sub-consciously look at them through ultra rose-coloured glasses that 'smooth out' the errors and omissions. I suggest that once you start to readily accept a lower standard on RTR stuff [just because it IS RTR] than you would accept from a quality kit then that will set 7mm on a downward spiral.

DJP/MMP

 

[Jordan]

A lengthy first post indeed.... no hello, no introduction... just straight in there with a pretty comprehensive damnation of a model and manufacturer....

...why do you doubt that the moderator will allow you space to list the 40 errors you've found so far? If you've found em, list em, and better still post some suggestions to correct em.

Seconded.
Welcome to Western Thunder....

 

[marsa69]

no hello, no introduction

Come on Jordan don't be too harsh, he did say 'Hi all' and at least he didn't beat about the bush

Mark

 

[Dog Star]

It might just be that a lot of you want this stuff so much in RTR form that you sub-consciously look at them through ultra rose-coloured glasses that 'smooth out' the errors and omissions. I suggest that once you start to readily accept a lower standard on RTR stuff [just because it IS RTR] than you would accept from a quality kit then that will set 7mm on a downward spiral.

In a way this comment is just how I feel about the current RTR in 7mm. I did buy a Skytrex loco once, one of the tram engines. I was disappointed with the model, poorly assembled, warped / twisted sides, glue smears. I arranged to return the model at a subsequent exhibition... expecting to exchange the model. When I passed the model over I was informed that my payment had been refunded to my bank account.... no explanation as to why.

I have not bought anything from Skytrex since.

 

[28ten]

Strangely enough I looked at one on Xmas eve, I dont know a huge amount about PO wagons, and irrespective of errors I didnt feel that it was of the same quality as Lionheart. Given that Parkside kits are very easy to build from the box im not sure where it leaves these models.
I suspect they will find homes on the layouts or shelves of people who want lots stuff rather than better models

 

[dilbert]

Adrian, welcome to WT. A lenghly first post, but why do you doubt that the moderator will allow you space to list the 40 errors you've found so far? If you've found em, list em, and better still post some suggestions to correct em

Phil,

Some background into Adrian's post, which may explain your moderation question. A few weeks back Adrian posted on Rmweb a list of the issues that he had found with the Dapol 7mm PO wagons... there was a copy of an email that had been sent to Dapol. That post on RMweb got deleted - I still don't understand why, apart from the fact that ABS should have received a reply from Dapol and that the matter was closed.

I do share the concern about the expansion of RTR in 0 gauge as there are plenty of kits around. A part of the concern is the perception that '7mm will be cheaper' - that and the availability of the equivalent of OO gauge radius 1 trackwork.

No doubt that the next issue of the G0G gazette will feature a review of these PO wagons - the manufacturer will have the right of reply.

thx, Nick

 

[28ten]

As long as they are valid and factual points, then i cant see a problem.
The real test for Dapol will be the 08 and if they can really deliver reasonable quality at that price point.

FWIW i dont think a lot people actually care about the issues. Putting it into a different world i was chatting to someone today who had bought an iPad 2 in a knockdown price, Im standing there saying, 'but its not retina, it hasnt got an A6 processor, its heavier etc etc', but you know what, they couldnt give a It was cheaper and it did what he wanted. Whilst there are those of us who want the correct details, there is a huge market that really doesnt care.

 

[3 LINK]

It might just be that a lot of you want this stuff so much in RTR form that you sub-consciously look at them through ultra rose-coloured glasses that 'smooth out' the errors and omissions. I suggest that once you start to readily accept a lower standard on RTR stuff [just because it IS RTR] than you would accept from a quality kit then that will set 7mm on a downward spiral.

DJP/MMP

Hi David,

You might find that with all this RTR now coming on the market that it will encourage more modellers to try 7mm, and once they have "cut their teeth" on the RTR stuff they will want to better themselves and want more exact detail and start looking at what other suppliers in 7mm have to offer.

So lets hope for a more positive knock on effect, and in the long run send a lot more 7mm modeller in your direction.

All the best,

Martyn.

 

[djparkins]

Hi David,

You might find that with all this RTR now coming on the market that it will encourage more modellers to try 7mm, and once they have "cut their teeth" on the RTR stuff they will want to better themselves and want more exact detail and start looking at what other suppliers in 7mm have to offer.

So lets hope for a more positive knock on effect, and in the long run send a lot more 7mm modeller in your direction.

All the best,

Martyn.

Hello Martyn -

Me thinks you are a 'glass half full' man!

I fully appreciate your comments but for me it hardly matters as over 90% of my income has been from our military stuff this year and anyway, I'm knocking on! I was just reflecting generally I suppose, given that I care about 7mm & about standards.

One thing I do know - I would hate to be a kit manufacturer dependent only on 7mm at the moment, because increasingly the economics of it just do not stack up. It was very different at one time but I'm just pleased I'm not in that position now. War sells!

Regards,

DJP

 

[Pennine MC]

... A few weeks back Adrian posted on Rmweb a list of the issues that he had found with the Dapol 7mm PO wagons... [snip]. That post on RMweb got deleted - I still don't understand why, apart from the fact that ABS should have received a reply from Dapol and that the matter was closed.

The reason given Nick, was "but I disapprove of registering just to bomb a complaint that was made privately to Dapol".

Given that that post was from mid-November, though, and that Adrian registered in March, I'm having real trouble with the maths

...Whilst there are those of us who want the correct details, there is a huge market that really doesnt care.

And was it ever any different, Cynric? Well, it has changed a bit; those of us with aspirations might expect the RTR to be a decent basis, a timesaver that will free up resources for other jobs, rather than being a major project in itself as RTR used to be.

As long as they are valid and factual points, then i cant see a problem.

Indeed; whether the masses care or not shouldnt matter IMHO and again speaking personally, I dont give a flying one how long someone has been a member if he's talking sense and isnt unfairly attacking an individual. A forum should surely be a place where informed criticism can be aired for the benefit of all, so that equally informed decisions can be made. I'm sure we can all make up our minds about why that wasnt so in November.

 

[Dave]

FWIW i dont think a lot people actually care about the issues...

...Whilst there are those of us who want the correct details, there is a huge market that really doesnt care.

And then there are those who are unaware of the issues. I'm no expert on PO or GWR wagons so if I wanted one and saw these I might buy one.

But then, once I read about the inaccuracies, I'd feel cheated. Anyway, I wouldn't buy one even if I wanted a GW or PO wagon of this type. Just by looking at the second photo in this topic I can see that the brake shoes aren't in line with the wheels so for that reason alone I wouldn't buy it.

I like to build kits so RTR is an irrelevance but I don't see the point in buying a so-called RTR wagon that then has to be chopped about to correct something as basic as getting the brake blocks to line up with the wheels!

 

[BrushType4]

And then there are those who are unaware of the issues. I'm no expert on PO or GWR wagons so if I wanted one and saw these I might buy one.

But then, once I read about the inaccuracies, I'd feel cheated. Anyway, I wouldn't buy one even if I wanted a GW or PO wagon of this type. Just by looking at the second photo in this topic I can see that the brake shoes aren't in line with the wheels so for that reason alone I wouldn't buy it.

I like to build kits so RTR is an irrelevance but I don't see the point in buying a so-called RTR wagon that then has to be chopped about to correct something as basic as getting the brake blocks to line up with the wheels!

Exactly Dave! Head over to RMweb and say that, but be ready to duck!

 

[iploffy]

With all the RTR around it might have a small effect on the prices!!!!!!!!!

 

[Adrian B.Swain]

Hi all again, Sorry I was not aware of all the courtesies in my first post so--- Hope you all had a great Xmas and
did not receive any Dapol wagons and wishing you all a great New Year . It is most gratifying to find that there
are some readers of this forum and they appear to want to know what is wrong with these wagons and have
picked up on some of the remarks made "In another place" It appears that fuller details of errors would be of interest, at least to some. so hear goes with my second post, just dealing with the brakegear.
1) The brakeshoes are an unacceptably long way from the wheels for no good reason. Being plastic they cannot
cause shorts.
2) The safety loops are solid, the words "Loops" says it all. and they are in the wrong position because of 1)
3) The left hand pushrod is directly in line with the lever pivot and would therefore not move when the
brakes were applied.
4) Both pushrods finish on the lever pivot line instead of being about 3mm longer to allow for wear adjustment.
5) The brakeshoes are not the correct post '23 design but are a bit like the earlier designs with only one hanging
eye which was discontinued to avoid having handed brakeshoes.
6) The inner Vee hanger is much to far in, it should be only about half as far away from the outer Vee and in
addition is about 4 times thicker than scale.
7) The outer Vee does not have the distinctive joggle inwards below the solebar
8) The models have a brake cross shaft all the way across which means when one lever was put on the brakes
would,in theory go "On" that side but "Off" the other. the shaft is also only about half the correct diameter
and if the brakegear had been properly designed would probably not have been needed at all !!
9) The brake lever is truly farcical, it is basically flat with a slight change of thickness near the handle end and
has nowhere near the correct profile either in plan or elevation. It is also more or less in the ON position
which might be fine parked in a siding with a slope or in a heavy train descending a steep bank but would
be better in the off position. Better still moveable, which would not have been a first, as I have a semi
mass produced prewar (WW2 0f course) wagon which not only has moveable brake levers but working brakes
AND a pin on the end of a bit of chain attached to the lever guide. I have not tried pinning the lever
down as I need a magnifying glass and fine tweezers to do so !!
10) The lever pin guide is rather weedy and not the right length, the bottom, where the two parts are rivetted
together being absent.
Thats all for now folks as it is time for my beauty sleep (No wisecracks please) but if there is a clamour
for Chapter 2 -" The solebars and buffers " I will try to drag myself away from the mince pies again.
Your obedient servant Adrian

 

[Dan Randall]

Hope you all had a great Xmas and did not receive any Dapol wagons

Nice one Adrian. Is it safe to assume that you are the Adrian B. Swain of ABS Models?


Regards

Dan

 

[28ten]

I would suspect that a lot of those issues are down to simplifying for cheaper construction. I read somewhere that Hornsby are now moulding roof vents into the body to save costs, this strikes me as a retrograde step, but it seems to be portrayed an 'advance',even using Chinese production corners will inevitably be cut to hit price points. I'm glad however I'm not the only one who doesn't see it as a bargin to pay good money for something inherently wrong.
As i said, my guess is that those people who buy them because they look pretty with their rtr diesels won't give a toss..... More discerning / knowledgeable modellers will buy a kit and fit an etched chassis.