On guard - In memoriam

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Peter Insole, 6 November 2018.

  1. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    So much to do, so little time left until the Warley show! It has been a bit bonkers lately over at Love Lane as we try to get as much done as possible.

    Despite spending rather more hours than usual over there in the last couple of months, and having homework to do as well, I felt the need to add the following small item to the burgeoning list!

    After a successful bit of research in the evenings late last week, I was able to start:

    wSAM_7909.JPG wSAM_7910.JPG

    Although I had managed to acquire a reasonably "good" general arrangement drawing (if there is such a thing indeed?) showing the object in profile, I was unable to find a complete plan view.

    This will therefore require quite a bit of guesswork, and I will have to be content with a "looks about right" approach as well as a fair bit of "designing on the hoof"?!


    Admittedly it was a bit of a faff waiting until the first parts were glued up before finally deciding where the cut-outs should be located, but they are quite critical - and I wanted to be absolutely sure...?!

    I also had a slightly awkward bit of laminating and whittling to do next:


    Two pieces of sheet plastic were glued together, and when sufficiently set one layer was shaved and filed to a vee. A third layer was added, and in a repeat of the previous procedure, it too was cut and shaped to make the final triangular wedge.


    A tapered and slightly angled slot had to be cut out along the bottom edge for a snug and strong fitting later!


    These next parts might be a bit of a giveaway now?


    Any guesses...?

  2. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    Sentinel steam lorry????-----------------BW
  3. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    1940/50s coal lorry or a London Transport breakdown tender....?
  4. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    I,m guessing "ON GUARD" equates to SENTINAL????????????????????
  5. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Here is the rest of this evening's post!

    Nice and straightforward so far...

    wSAM_7914.JPG wSAM_7915.JPG

    The chassis is a bit of a cheat and is something of a dinky toy job!

    I would love to go to town on a proper, pukka scale model, but this one just has to be a quickie for display only. I am rather enjoying it for that I must say though!


    More haste, less.... Just a little keen, or just plain tired; I cut the windscreen aperture much too deep! Putting a strip back in along the bottom and making good would be so much less trouble than marking up and cutting another front, so I stuck it on anyway!

    The extra thickness at the top edge was deliberate though!

    To attempt a long cut that thin would have been folly - the plastic would have wandered under the blade. Later, when I come to fit the roof, I will use the knife on edge to scrape the correct angle. It will be terribly flimsy, so that will be fun?!

    Next, a whole load of squeaky, scratching, wifey abandoning ship stuff...


    I had originally intended to fabricate the bulbous schnozzle, but feared that the joint with the cab floor would not be strong enough if I built it with the driver's door open, so elected to cheat again and make it solid.

    The slot in the bottom of the wedge has provided an almost seamless, and practically bomb proof structure!

    wSAM_7923.JPG wSAM_7924.JPG

    Sorry Dave, but 2-Bil was spot on!

    A splendid Sentinel it is indeed - or hopefully will be?!

    Mind you, at this stage, and from the angle in the last photo above, I am reminded of an old corporation dustcart?!

    Me, the worktop, and the floor around it in particular, have begun to resemble the interior of one of the aforementioned.

    I am not only running out of time, but of excuses too...!!

    Last edited: 8 November 2018
  6. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    So this is going to be a Rolls-Royce of a model?
  7. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I'm sure it will (not that RR had anything at all to do with Sentinel's steam production - the takeover finished that off!). So what's it to be Pete? An S4 or an S6?

  8. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    I won't say "wait and see, AJC..."! Here is yesterdays effort for the answer to your question:

    Using the old trick of heating pre cut strips of plasticard over a flame, (carefully!) and then stretching them over a bit of round wood - in this case an odd offcut of curtain pole that happened to be just the right diameter, I made half a dozen or so of these:


    After selecting four of the best ones, I marked out and trimmed them to size.

    (I may have another few jobs for the waste, later)?

    Moulding in this fashion will at least ensure that the parts should retain their true semi circular shape without any further support needed?

    wSAM_7928.JPG wSAM_7931.JPG

    I know it is cheating again, and although it might not be immediately apparent, I have cut those mudguards too wide in order to be able to glue their inside edges directly to the chassis frames!

    It is getting even more like an old fashioned "Dinky" die-cast by the day isn't it?

    But now for a point of departure?

    I know I'm always banging on about not mixing media, but somehow I managed to persuade myself that it would be a good idea to make an exception in this case.

    So out came the ply and strip wood...

    wSAM_7934.JPG wSAM_7936.JPG

    I have cut it all slightly narrow in order to accommodate the most commonly observed, low, drop sides.

    Trouble is, I now think it looks rather fine as a plain flatbed - in which case the ribs are a bit too short! I will have to have another think about that?

    Meanwhile, there are plenty more issues to consider.

    It would have been nice to do a lumping great three axle S6, but as I haven't yet worked out how to make the tyres I thought it would be wise to limit myself to only six for an S4?!

    GrahameH, Wagonman, 3 LINK and 12 others like this.
  9. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Adam, what is it about Peter's model that leads you to omit the S8 from your post? Apart from the length of the bed...
  10. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Quite simple - the mudguards for the second axle would cut the bottom corner of the rear of the cab, per this picture: Sentinel 3- & 4-axle steam waggons | 1934 Sentinel S8 No 9105, UJ3652

    The S4 and S6 lacked that second axle and thus the cab had a square back corner. This is doing nothing for my occasional longing for a 4mm version...

    Dog Star, jamiepage and Peter Insole like this.
  11. simond

    simond Western Thunderer


    Don’t know if this helps...

    Porth Dinllaen in 0 - Page 9 - 7mm+ modelling

    I promised the master to Andy Duncan some years back, but if I can find the silicone mould, you’re welcome to it.

    More mixed media, I know...

    Yorkshire Dave likes this.
  12. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    A thought on wheels - Geoff Kent's method in 4mm is to construct them from plastic sheet. The hubs are built up from discs and the tyres wound round from strip, solvent welded and then shaped. Now Geoff is a minor genius in the medium but I reckon Pete is at least his equal.

    He alludes to this in MRJ 40 and 41, but probably gives the best exemplification in his pair of pieces on the Thornycroft lorry he built for Pendon (in nos 109 and 110): Model Railway Journal Index

  13. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Thank you so much Simon and Adam for the offer and the pointers!

    Those cast wheels do look very nice indeed, but I fear that they will not be quite the right size for this little beast? The diagram annotation states that they were 42 x 9's - so quite big, but skinny too!

    I had been thinking along the lines of laminating the tyres around cut discs of plastic, though the prospect was rather daunting! I was quite convinced that it could prove to be a disastrous waste of precious time! Adam, you can barely imagine how extremely relieved I am to hear that Geoff Kent has been doing this - and clearly with some notable success!

    It has given me a great deal of hope that there will be something more to show at Warley after all!!

    Other roundy shapes have also been exercising me today, but more of that later...

    3 LINK and AJC like this.
  14. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Excellent work Pete :thumbs:.

    I've become quite used to using mixed media for construction - it's just finding the right adhesive. To me it's what ever fits the bill especially when it comes to wood as the flatbed has demonstrated.

    He he- I may have guessed the vehicle incorrectly :oops: - however, an RT or RF is a different matter. :)
    Peter Insole likes this.
  15. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Dave, it is not so much the adhesives that I have found to be the problem over the years, but the tendency of parts to distort as a result of opposing forces in certain conditions.

    Metal expands in heat, and so do various types of plastic, while wood (and it's derived materials) are at the same time shrinking! I'm not quite sure what the heck MDF gets up to as it appears to have a mind of it's own and continually wanders off in unexpected directions?! It will be interesting to see what happens to the chassis of this little Sentinel on the next warm summer day, or perhaps sooner, after a period of very high humidity?

    I still believe that it is always best to use similar materials and minimise the different types of adhesives used on each model.

  16. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    I had hoped to get primer on the body by this weekend, but it has now been and gone! There always seems to be one more job to do, and then another, before the rattle can can be rattled!

    Quite a lot has been done since my last post, so it is time, and there is just about time for a quick catch-up before work this evening though:

    I couldn't find anything of the right diameter to make a pattern for the boiler, so had to construct the half upper and full lower halves the hard way...

    wSAM_7937.JPG wSAM_7939.JPG

    Nibbling and smoothing some discs and then scraping angles on two edges of some plastic strip:


    It was a bit of fiddly fun holding the first cut lengths in place to start with, but it became easier to complete the circle once the solvent had started working!


    Yes, I had overcut the angles, but I was relieved to find that there was enough meat on the outer faces when solvent was dribbled down each joint and firmly squeezed together.


    It all smoothed up fairly well in the end and dropped neatly between the two coal bunkers on either side of the cab:

    wSAM_7948.JPG wSAM_7950.JPG

    I didn't hang about before installing the chimney as I was keen to prevent solvent vapour from building up inside, and potentially warping the newly built boiler or surrounding structures!

    There are more secret holes drilled and opened out in various places for that same purpose.


    The full lower portion does look a bit like a Liquorice Allsort with such a large vent cut out at this stage, but should appear to be slightly less odd once the ashpan is fitted?!

    wSAM_7953.JPG wSAM_7957.JPG

    The two rather rounded pillows in front of the bunkers are dreadfully simplified representations of the water tanks that should sit underneath and run through to the back!

    Again, with the rest of the gubbins installed, it won't be noticeable that there is nothing but air, and hopefully no fumes, behind?!

    GrahameH, Wagonman, PMP and 14 others like this.
  17. Giles

    Giles Western Thunderer

    This is wonderful! I once fired one of these on the London to Brighton Commercial Vehicle run - they do go well!
    (what a lovely model this will be...!)
    Scale7JB likes this.
  18. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Oh dear! Giles, I fear the next couple of posts will reveal that I am blustering my way forward on this build - for want of good reference at such short notice being my rather lame excuse!

    Another busy day at Love Lane tomorrow, so it's a mug of cocoa and a bit more catchup before bedtime...

    Little boxes:

    wSAM_7959.JPG wSAM_7960.JPG

    But they don't look all the same!

    This one was a right old faff to wrangle into shape! It made a few escape attempts during the process too!

    Admittedly, I had made a rod for my own back. An earlier decision to run the wheel arches further inboard to meet the chassis frames (merely for the sake of convenience) has had the knock-on effect of requiring awkward cut-outs and other levelling issues to be solved!

    After much trial, and too much error:


    Two little cabinets!

    When I first cut them, I had foolishly assumed that they should be symmetrical? Oh no, not so!

    The fireman sat far over to the nearside, and probably suffered with draughts from a flimsy and ill fitting door, while the driver must have frequently clouted his left elbow on all sorts of hot, hard and lumpy boiler fittings?!

    I'm not sure if I have moved his perch too far in though, but it will have to stay now as I don't much fancy trying to dig it out again.

    I previously mentioned further use for some of the curvy waste moulding:


    A pair of seat squabs and backs.

    They should really be pleated rather than plain, and have little triangular bits of the bucket frames showing at either side, but that dreaded deadline is looming ever larger!


    They too will have to just sit and stay there now.

    Mind you, after the show - when things are a bit more relaxed...?

    ………… !!

  19. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    Not quite cocoa time yet, but here is another update:


    When looking at the precious few photographs that reveal anything of the cab interiors and trying to work out how they were originally laid out, I spotted an error:

    The bunkers are angled inwards, with coal chutes on either side of the firing hole. The lid of the hole also had to be recessed.

    Both items were fairly quickly, and I admit rather crudely remedied.


    Of course, my resolve to keep this job simple and straightforward couldn't last? I never seem to know when to stop!

    The boiler just didn't look right without the gauge glass and some other representations of the plumbing...?

    Some of these extras can be observed in the next few views:


    Quite a jump forward now.

    The roof was carved from two pieces of quite thick plasticard laminated together, so is solid. That was only a problem when it came to the wee hatch just in front of the chimney. As Love Lane is set in High Summer, I think the crew would have been taking advantage of every means of ventilation available to them?

    Part of fitting the roof involved trimming the top edge of the windscreen frame, so a short length of tee section Plastruct was cut and set for the central pillar. This material is nice and rigid, so has provided a bit more strength in that area.


    I was concerned that the upper structure might be too fragile and the roof would have to be glued permanently down after painting the interior.

    The snug fit of the chimney, aided by a strange coned fairing, plus the added guttering has fortunately made it perfectly secure!

    wSAM_7986.JPG wSAM_7987.JPG

    The smallest half round strip that I could find is perhaps at tad over scale, and does rather emphasise the Dinky die-cast look, but I'm more than happy with the neatly trimmed and finished appearance!

    I am not too bothered about the untidy top corner of the moulding in the last photo - but that's for the next post!

    phileakins, Neil, Wagonman and 15 others like this.
  20. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Saw this today at Love Lane, it's magnificent!