7mm On Heather's Workbench - Multiple Maunsells

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Heather Kay, 1 December 2017.

  1. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    I align the cradles to the frame and then spot through - that way I know the wires will fit, register and can be vertical. The rest of the attachment is pretty much how the prototype works, which is why it's all a bit tentative. I also fill the battery boxes with liquid lead and epoxy or superglue (filling from the top) as it's the only way to get low-down weight into the frame.

    If you're about to head into headstock land, now is the point to confirm draft gear. If you're doing a vehicle with BS rather than Pullman gangways you'll need new buffers and bufferbeams.

    David Orton likes this.
  2. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Spotting through sounds like a good plan, which I shall do next time. I didn't think to put ballast in the boxes until too late. D'oh! I'll see how things weigh up during the rest of the build, then perhaps glue lead sheet under the frames or in the compartment floors. I calculate the ideal weight ought to be around 630g or so.

    I think the client's idea is to have a semi-permanent rake. I managed to chat briefly with him at a Reading, and he likes the idea of rigid hose couplings, from Laurie Griffin in particular. I'll be checking out his range shortly. This means the inner coaches probably don't need the full Monty detailing, though I'll probably do it anyway, fool that I am! I think we'll be sticking with Pullman gangways throughout, and I'll drop the buckeyes at the outer ends of the brakes. I also think it'll make sense to build up at least one more underframe to check for coupling and spacing.
    BR Tony and David Orton like this.
  3. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    That sounds like a good plan Heather.

  4. 2-Bil

    2-Bil Western Thunderer

    HK-yes-idiocyncracies-well moulded door bangs ,door lock escutcheons and then the "whys? "at the coach ends.On the RAIL ONLINE library under BR Steam 80xx 2-6-4t heading page 5 shows an image of 80089 at Guildford coupled to S5621S the Dia 2301 composite.Its a nice precis .A single vent wc,a single 1st class compartment,a Southern Railway acid etched Smoking sign,a British Railways 1st Class Totem all below a(post summer of 1962) 1st class yellow band! while im here i hope you won't mind indulging me a moment to ask Steph Dale about the "Continental " A-Was it finished? B-Was it painted? C-if it was-perchance a pitcha?.............pleeze With respect 2-Bil
  5. Threadmark: Buffing gear
    Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    A brief hiatus, mainly due to domestic issues. Nothing serious, just enough to make me really not want to spend time at the bench. Anyhoo…


    I finally made a start in the headstock detailing. As seems to be the fashion with this kit, it's a proper multimedia riot. Plastic headstocks, cast brass multipart buffers, etched details, and some very small bits of wire. It do look the part, though. In this piccie, you can see the brake end buffers, fitted with their working collars.


    Underneath, it looks even more complicated! I'll explain the basic construction later, but Slater's have worked out a way to spring buffer heads both ways, to let them compress as well as be drawn forward to let the collars slip on and then have enough tension to hold said collars in place. Very neat, if fiddly and time consuming.


    Here, I am compressing the buffer. The large spring deals with buffing forces.


    Here, I am pulling the buffer head outwards, and you may just make out a smaller spring inside the larger spring, on the tail of the buffer head.


    Here are the workings. The brass parts all need to nest inside each other and be a sliding fit. Being castings, it takes a while to file and fettle them so they work as expected. So, the head slides into the square ram, which fits inside the body. You will note, I've fitted a small wire hook to the body, which is where the chain attached to the collar goes, and the collar itself will hang when not in use.

    I still have to resolve couplings, so I rather think some of the further detailing may have to wait for a response from the client. Being close to Christmas, and my client being one of the blessed not in thrall to the internet, snailmail will be slow. I could always phone him, I suppose. Anyway, only the outer ends of the rake will be fully detailed, which leads me to a question I may put to the WT megabrain.

    I have four coaches in this set. I suspect I might find the answers in the reference material, but with the following vehicles, what would be a usual formation? The vehicles in question are Brake Composite, two Brake Thirds and a Composite. My guess, believing that Southern Region were fond of three coach sets, is Brake Third+Composite+Brake Third with the Brake Composite being attached as needed.

    I am sure the client explained it to me some time ago, but I probably failed to note it down. Some book work is needed, then, to ascertain suitable running numbers and likely set numbers. All good fun! Perhaps I will start on some bodywork tomorrow.
    BR Tony, P A D, David Orton and 2 others like this.
  6. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Gut instinct leads me to believe you are correct on the formation - so the Brake Composite will almost certainly need a loose stock number. The kicker, I guess, is whether the Brake 3rds have 4 or 6 compartments - Slater's do both.

    Nope, it's very close though! It got held for two further scratchbuilds (a Nondescript Brake and a Thanet Composite), one of which developed a solvent bubble and took a while to re-harden. I dug them all out last week actually, no doubt spurred on by Heather's build here. When I've got a couple of hours they'll progress rapidly to conclusion. And then, no doubt, sit around for ages waiting for painting.

  7. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Both Brake Thirds are six compartment. I'll do some reading up on sets and numbers, and work out what the Composite might be plausibly numbered as.

    Of course, Slater's do include that info in the instruction booklet intros, so that may be a good place to start.
  8. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Both of those statements lead me to think you'll have a relatively straightforward time of it then. Have you got the Gould book?

  9. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Not got a book by Gould. I only have the King book, which I deemed sufficient for the job at hand at the time.
  10. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hello Heather,
    You might like to look at this site SR/BR(S) Coach Sets
    It lists all coaching sets on SR with the vehicles allocated to each. A mine of information.
    BR Tony likes this.
  11. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Aah, well done that man - I'd forgotten about the SEMG. Hopefully that'll help.

    Sorry for not replying sooner, Heather, I finished work about half an hour ago; I would have hoped to have a flick through this evening on your behalf.

  12. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    Hi Heather,
    I can vouch for David Gould's book, plus it's only a tenner at Waterstones. The SEMG formation list is great, but the Gould book fills in all the gaps the SEMG can't, because the SEMG list only raises more questions once you start to read it, such as what brake third type with high or low windows was in that formation? He lists all the carriage types, build dates and why and where the formations operated. As we know the SR had very strict formations and not much loose stock, he tells all in the book so it's also an interesting read.

    Maunsell's SR Steam Carriage Stock by David Gould | Waterstones

    BR Tony, Pencarrow and Heather Kay like this.
  13. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    I would like to express my thanks for pointing me in various directions for information on sets and numbers. It is appreciated, as ever. I wouldn't be where I am today, etc.

    Thing is, while I enjoy expanding my reference library, I have to weigh up the pros and cons of each purchase. Gould's volume does indeed provide essential information for anyone modelling the Southern lines. At a tenner it ought to be a no-brainer. However, I don't know how many other ex-Southern Railway and Southern Region commissions I am likely to get, so the risk is the book sits on the shelf gathering dust after this one brief bout of research. It probably makes more sense to call on the good offices of WTers who already own a copy to provide the information I seek.

    So, here's the situation: with the information provided by Slater's, I have narrowed down likely running numbers; with the help of King, I have confirmed numbers and even found a likely set number. Faint bells ring when I read the words "Central Section", too. What I plan is to contact the client with this information and hope he has a preference. What I have confirmed is - obviously, as Slater's don't do other kinds - these coaches will be Restriction 4, with guard's duckets. That means the Hastings line sets are definitely out!

    With several sheets of paper covered in numbers, like a good spotter's notepad, now seems a good time to down pens and get the bodywork under way. I would like to see something rising from the flat floor today!
    BR Tony and 76043 like this.
  14. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Just to throw some more confusion the Central Section generally saw restriction 1 coaches on their secondary lines - i.e. Eastern Section loading gauge without ducket - although the majority of the LBSC was restriction 5 (balloon stock).

    Restriction 4 stock tended to be confined to the Western Section main lines.

    Athough the Southern had a penchant for 3 carriage sets, however - beware as BR remarshalled some into two and four carriage sets. This is where Gould's book becomes invaluable.
    BR Tony and Pencarrow like this.
  15. Threadmark: More buffers
    Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Indeed. This is why I should check with the client before I commit to anything. The chosen formation will also have a bearing on couplings and which sort I fit where, so most of the rest of the headstock detailing must wait.

    I managed to contain my temper enough to fit the buffer collars today.


    Intended outer (brake) end with collars holding the heads extended.


    Intended inner end, with collars stowed.


    I forgot to show the rather lovely two-piece brass cast dynamo before. Again, references let me down regarding safety chain and wiring, so I may have to revisit this before long. I've also been considering pulleys on the attendant bogies. I know. I am seeking professional help. ;)
    BR Tony, Scanlon and farnetti like this.
  16. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    Hi Heather

    Somehow missed your thread on the build of these Maunsell coaches.

    I shared your pain with the brass bogie build. Tricky but worthwhile IMO.

    Like you, for the first coach I tried to keep the plastic trusses but, as others have said, they started to bow as the build progressed and then broke. In a rush of blood to the head I replaced them with brass angle and on the second build went for brass straight away.

    I'm puzzled that you've ended up with a gap in the underframe sides. I've just checked my part completed coaches and have no gaps. If it helps, the measurement along the centreline of the coach from back of headstock to back of headstock on my builds is 401mm.

    Here's a few photos of the coach in primer with green overspray from the sides...

    IMAG2934.jpg IMAG2935.jpg IMAG2936.jpg IMAG2937.jpg IMAG2938.jpg IMAG2939.jpg

    My primary interest is BR(S) and I have all the various books and references on Maunsell coaching stock, plus a number of spreadsheets which distill the data into something useful in terms of tracking sets and bodystyle variations. Shout if you want any assistance on this front.
    BR Tony and Heather Kay like this.
  17. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    Thanks Chris. I'm not sure what caused the gap. Let's hope it won't come back and bite me!

    Trusses issue is noted. I'll see how this one fares. Replacement ought to be straightforward if required.
  18. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    If you offer one of the body end panels up, how does it look with the headstock?
  19. Heather Kay

    Heather Kay Western Thunderer

    It all seems to check out. I'll be starting on bodywork tomorrow, so if you hear a loud noise from the south-east corner or Blighty you'll know something is amiss! :))
  20. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    Both books work well as a pair and complement each other. King has good drawings and descriptive text. Gould goes into more detailed history on sets, allocations and changes over time. Gould can be picked up quite cheaply second hand.