Phoenix - Single Pack etch primer.

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Hi all..

I've got the K2 to spray Monday/Tuesday whilst littl'n and the missus are away at the outlaws, and I have in stock some Phoenix Single pack etch primer.

I've read Warrens thread about priming with the twin pack primer, and Richard Carr has backed it up as a great method, but whilst I've got it here I might use what I've got.. Only thing is, on the website it recommends the pots of single pack be thinned 50/50 with thinners which is fine, but what I have is in a rattle can, and so is un-thinnable...

Is it therefore pre-thinned?

JB.

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Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Also another little query, is this going to give a nice gloss finish with some halfords acrylic black topcoat? (Yes, I think I am going to so it lined black rather than lined green :( )

JB.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Righto..

Just curious, as the Halfords black gloss is very good, except when it's sprayed on halfords primer... Found out the hard way..

JB.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I fully recommend my recently acquired skill of test spraying tin cans first, Guinness, Stella, Blackthorns or what ever takes your fancy ;)

I used Cloistermans on the A1 tender, whilst the finish was nice it's 'stickability' was not, so I'll be interested to hear how the Phoenix one fairs.

Do Halfords not do a etch primer then, I'm sure I saw some in there when they were mixing up my exploding can of BR green!
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
D'you know I'm not sure if they do an etch primer..

What I do know is that I've got the Phoenix and black gloss in stock, and they won't cost me anything haha..

JB.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Yep, Acid #8 etch. Allegedly not for brass, but in reality sticks to it like the proverbial.
Adrian is correct about the tenacity of the primer. Simon Thompson sprayed up a piece of scrap etch and I could not mark the surface with a finger nail - I needed the corner of a 20p coin to have any effect. Maybe Simon can point us towards the pictures of the samples that he has uploaded to a topic on this forum.
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
That's interesting with the Halfords etch primer.

I've been perfectly happy with the standard halfrauds grey primer up until I started lining engines, it's just hopeless for gloss..

JB.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
That's interesting with the Halfords etch primer.

I've been perfectly happy with the standard halfrauds grey primer up until I started lining engines, it's just hopeless for gloss..

JB.
That's because in the automotive world the grey primer is filler primer and it is assumed you will smooth this before serious paint application, it is not (as far as I have been informed) supposed to be used as a raw base coat, unless of course your touching up your Challenger II tank after a little fender bender in Tesco's ;)

The grey primer is very good at filling small cracks between say tender sides and their foot plates or cab sides and foot plates where your solder seam isn't quite uniform or perfect, the paint readily forms a nice fillet between surfaces.

Having said that, etch primers are designed to go below filler primers so they don't have to specifically flow to form a ultra smooth surface, if they do, that's an added bonus for us, but I've found that they do tend to be thinner and more viscous to allow them to fall into crevices and cracks, so your prep work has to be really good, even fairly deep scratches from vigorous sanding can show through.

For locos that need lining you may be better off with an automotive black, these are designed to give a smooth tough surface so tend to flow better and bond with themselves to give a smoother surface, try a can of Halfords gloss black on top of their grey primer, I reckon the surface will be much smoother.

I have a can of Phoenix BR green and when sprayed on my test cans does leave a slightly rough surface, sort of like 2500 or 4000 grit W&D, yet the automotive BR greens I have leave a lovely smooth surface.

The other option might be a lacquer over your black as these also tend to have a self levelling component from what I've seen.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
In the world of automotive paints, certain primers are now available in a wide range of colours - albeit not in tiny pots! (1 litre may be smallest).
 

warren haywood

Western Thunderer
IHi JB,
The only way you will get a truly flat 'mirror' finish is with an airbrush and celly paint diluted about 4 or 5 times with high gloss thinners. I've just finished this 4f, it's had about 5 coats of paint all sprayed with low air and lots of paint, then a soaking at the end in neat thinner to really settle it out. The primer is just a wettish mist of 2 part beige etch so it's as if you are almost spraying the livery colour onto bare metal ( but you aren't really;)) . It's is not as high gloss as it was as it has had a dry mist of lacquer applied.
As Mick says, the Halfords stuff is a filler designed to go over etch primer, it's not brilliant at sticking to brass, after a bit of handling paint will start chipping on exposed edges. I haven't ever used etch primer from a can, so can't really comment on it but I get the feeling it will still be quite thick.
All the best Warren
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D816Foxhound

Western Thunderer
My limited experience of Halfords black from a can is that the "matt" version dried with quite a satin finish
and that "satin" dried with a gloss finish. I haven't tried their "gloss", but from this I'd expect it to dry with a high
gloss finish. The base coat was either cellulose grey primer, acrylic grey primer or acrylic red oxide primer.

Roger
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
Hi Warren,

I am always amazed how many all black locos are finished in the same all black. This loco shows the contrast of the (nearly) matt black of the smoke box against the rest of the bodywork well and I look forward to to seeing the finished loco.

Ken
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Thanks for everybody's feedback...

Well, just sprayed the K2 with the Phoenix single pack and wow. We'll find out how well it went in the morning, but I'm converted from Halfords primer.. Even tempted to strip all previous engines and repaint (which I may do with the original K2 anyway). Only down side is a fairly coarse nozzle on the rattle can, but still miles better than the halfords acrylic..!

Thanks Warren, I'm not too fussed by exhibition quality gloss, just gloss enough for lining purposes as everything I do has a good dose of grime on anyway.

Should have the black on tomorrow eve, and I'll post some pics if it all works..

JB.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
What's the drying time on the single pack stuff? Two pack needs at least 48 hours to work it's magic.

My mistake: Phoenix say 24 hours on their site, but I leave mine longer because of the temperature variation in the spray booth.
 
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