Powering a JLTRT 50

[Temeraire]

I'm seeking some advice/opinions on what to power my JLTRT 50 kit with.

Looking round I've narrowed the choice down to:
1) JLTRT new "diesel power unit", made by Slaters, its a motor/gearbox powered by a Mashima 1833, driving a delrin chain, 14:1 reduction.
2) ABC Gears diesel gearbox, much as above, again 14:1 reduction.
3) ABC Gears RTR diesel motor bogie, Slaters wheels, shaft drive to the outer two axles, plunder pick-ups.

Now I like the idea of the RTR bogie, although expensive it comes ready built/set up but I'm not sure if theres room to fit things like the brake gear/shoes that sit behind the bogie frames if I go with this. Certainly some of the molded suspension spring detail on the bogie inner frame is lost this way. Also because the motor is mounted laying down (rather than upright as in most gearbox arrangements) it would need a fair amount hacking out of the chassis molding to allow the bogie to swing. I'd worry that this would weaken the chassis. On the plus side there's no Delrin chain to worry about.

The motor/gearbox options have the benefit of being cheaper (2 for the price of one RTR bogie) but I'm not sure how good the Delrin chain drives are?

So, what do others use for their JLTRT kits? Any thoughts in general?

Please forgive the newbie asking silly questions this early.

Anthony

 

[28ten]

I have An ABC bogie in my Western and its robust and well engineered, I haven't seen the JLTRT/Slaters unit so I couldn't comment on its performance but I don't like the idea of removing any more material from the bogie. Give Brian a ring at ABC hes very helpful I said this somewhere else but don't wait until Telford as you wont get long for a chat.
I have put the bogie on my desk to remind me to take some pictures tonight.
Listen to what others say as there are other options out there

 

[D1054]

Interesting that you're asking this question because I'm considering mine at this time too. I have two ABC motorised bogies but they were originally for the JLTRT Class 37 and I'm thinking of converting them over (they may even be identical to ABC's Class 50 bogies anyway, but I'm not sure about this).

I'm generally using Ron Chaplin motor/gearbox and have good performance from them with my "other" Class 37, Class 40 and Western, but I want a slower gearbox for the Class 50 (most of them were stationary in 1975 anyway! :lol: :lol: :lol: ).

I'll dig out the ABC's and see if their suitable, and post a few pictures and comments. Obviously, the main frame/chassis for the JLTRT kits require some work to get the ABC bogies in place with clearance, but if you do a good job with them then I hear they'll give years of excellent and trouble free use . Like most things, I guess the shaping just needs a little care.

I'm just finishing the fan on my Class 40, then I'll turn to the 50 bogies (and D1063/D1065 will have to wait 1027lancer!).

Catch u later,

Ian.

 

[Temeraire]

Ian,

To be honest its the hacking about of the chassis that bothers me the most. With the existing cutout there isn't a huge amount of meat left either side as it is!

Any photos you can post of the beasts would be very handy. I'd rather not order motor bogie(s), wait the require 8-10 weeks and then find they're not a workable solution. That would be an expensive mistake!

Anthony

 

[Jordan]

Not JLTRT, but I've used the "Mashima 1833's, Ron Chaplin gears & Delrin chain" combo on my Class 22 without any trouble, and a couple of my US diesels have Delrin chain in the drive-line too. It seems to be durable stuff and simple enough to use (major requirement for me!!)

Ron Chaplin's gears for JLTRT are here- http://www.ronchaplingearboxes.com/diesel.htm
IIRC two 1833 motors, two worm/gears and two flywheels cost me ?60 total at Telford (two years ago). I got the Delrin chain and cogs from this Seller on Ebay: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/onthewagon22/ he always has it in stock.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Ian,

Whilst the bogie wheelbase for the 37 and 50 are the same, the 37 wheels are 3'9" dia and those for the 50 are 3'7", so a change would be required.

regards

Mike

 

[D1054]

You're quite right Mike, but fortunately the wheelsets are Slaters so it should be a very simple swap-over of the wheels onto the existing axles before the outer frames/brake gear, etc., etc.. are attached. I'll put some picture up later tonight if I get chance to see how the whole thing might look......

Cheers for now,

Ian.

 

[D1054]

Mike,

Just following up on your note about Class 37 being 3'9" and Class 50 being 3'7" diameter wheels, I happened to look at Slaters website and then at my wheelsets and they appear to be incorrectly selling 3'7" sets for the Class 37 :shock: - this is strange as they do also sell 3'9" dia sets too of course, but they don't list as being for the Class 37

A quick check of my new wheels confirms they have indeed put both the 37 and 50 as having 3'7" wheels - will you tell them or should I?

More to follow......

Ian.

 

[28ten]

I havent had time for pics tonight, but I did give D1011 a good test at the local model engineers and it pulled 8 bachmann coaches in damp conditions, I was starting to slip with nine, but it would probably be ok in the dry. for the record the Heljan hymek pulled 10 coaches which is all that was there.
Eight coaches is sufficient for my needs and it would pull more in dry conditions and with extra weight.

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Ian,

It pains me to say it, but Slaters are correct - the information in Colin Marsden's book is wrong just goes to show that data should be checked from a number of sources before going to print. I have now checked the dimensions as published in Modern Locomotives Illustrated No 171 and 3'7" is stated - so all is well for you for your swop and once again, I appologise on behalf of Mr Marsden

regards

Mike

 

[Jordan]

It pains me to say it, but Slaters are correct - the information in Colin Marsden's book is wrong

I must admit, I was wondering if there's really so much visual difference between 3'7" and 3'9" in O scale anyway...?? :|

Sorry- I know, it was a bad thought... I shall go and run my lad's Hornby stuff as penance...

 

[iploffy]

[quote=""Ressaldar"":3bes9z8g]

It pains me to say it, but Slaters are correct - the information in Colin Marsden's book is wrong

I must admit, I was wondering if there's really so much visual difference between 3'7" and 3'9" in O scale anyway...?? :|

Sorry- I know, it was a bad thought... I shall go and run my lad's Hornby stuff as penance... [/quote:3bes9z8g]

Yes go and flail yourself with an piece of 2x4 you rivet counter

Ian :laugh:

 

[Jordan]

[quote=""Jordan""expw2r4]... go and flail yourself with an piece of 2x4 you rivet counter

Ian :laugh:

[/quoteexpw2r4]
I think you'll find it's actually 38mm x 89mm...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[D1054]

Spoke with Brian at ABC today. He confirmed that there is a slight difference between their motored bogies for the 50 and the 37, but the wheelbases are essentially the same and only the recesses for the bogie mounted springing is the difference - hardly noticeable on the frame when the outers and brakes & hangers are in place. Also, he has conflicting info of the Class 37 wheel diameter too!, but they're using the Slater 3'7" on the boies they supply.

I'm going to have a go with one of them for the 50 and will also build the other end "as standard" so we can see the difference. Will post a few pix of the progress later as promised.....

Cheers,

Ian.

 

[Phill Dyson]

I'm going to have a go with one of them for the 50 and will also build the other end "as standard" so we can see the difference. Will post a few pix of the progress later as promised.....

Cheers,

Ian.

I will look forward to that one

 

[Temeraire]

Ian,

Just to clarify, are you planning to use just the one ABC bogie with a standard unpowered JLTRT bogie at the other end?
I'm assuming a single powered bogie would give the loco enough traction?

I'm leaning toward using an ABC bogie for my 50 too, the only thing I have real concerns over is how much will need to be cut
out of the chassis to enable it to swing freely given the position of the motor. When you marry the bogie and chassis together I'd
be interested to see some photos of how you do it, if possible :scratch: .

I'd rather not order the bogie and then find it's not a viable proposition They're not cheap!

Appologies if these are daft questions, its my first proper 7mm build so its a bit of a steep learning curve.

Anthony

 

[Phill Dyson]

Ian,


I'm assuming a single powered bogie would give the loco enough traction?


Anthony

Cynric reckons one motor bogie can cope with 9 Bachmann brass MK1's, so I'm looking to power a JLTRT Western with one

 

[28ten]

A few quick and rubbish shots. the one aspect I dont like is the middle wheel set doesnt have a hornblock for the bearings, the frames themselves are the bearing surface. This wheel doesn't carry any weight and its really along for the ride so it shouldn't be a problem......
I fitted the trailing bogie with ballraces - because I could
I have a few concerns about the durability of the resin when the loco is filled with ballast not so much the chassis as the body will reinforce it when its assembled but the pivot on the trailing bogie - we shall see :scratch: having said that I havent seen any problems reported

 

[28ten]

The single powered bogie has proved sufficient so far in my (totally non scientific) tests. I really would suggest a chat with ABC just to put your mind at rest.
If I was planning on hauling really long heavy trains then I would fit two - just for the extra power reserve and to reduce strain on a single motor.

 

[D1054]

Hi Anthony,

Yes, that's about the size of it! Only one ABC powered bogie on 50 041 (at No.2 end) and this will be a first for me (other than my paired 20's which are still in their boxes). I don't need or want to run long heavy trains round and round so the one powered bogie will be fine for my purposes. There are plenty who have said one ABC will do for everything other than the heaviest jobs (11 coaches +) but I haven't witnessed this in practice. If you do intend intensive usage on long runs (and can afford it ! :shock: ) then I'd go with two to be honest.

Here's a shot of the problem which faces us. As you can see, it's not a problem at all (though I appreciate the cut will be closer to the pivot than shown on my sketch!)

Oh, and just seen your post too Guv. Looks like no problem on the Wezzie either!