7mm Rising Star/Slaters LNER F8

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
My mojo has been lacking for a couple of months or so and I was struggling to decide what I might do to try to get me back into the swing of modelling. While on holiday last week after listening to me huff and puff about building different tank engines, Chris had the idea of conducting a lottery to decide for me.

I have 8 tank engine kits in the pile so I wrote out the names on some strips of paper and Chris folded them up. Initially I though thast she was going to put them in a bag to pick one but to make it a little more fun and long lasting she divided them into two piles and put one in each hand getting me to chose a hand. This process was repeated a couple more time with the result that the F8 was the one that I ended up with.

I bought the kit from the Bolton show a couple of years ago for £95 from the bring and buy stand and this is what was in the box.

LNERF8003_zpsa2d2cc0e.jpg

At the time the kit was £115 from Slaters without wheels so I counted myself as getting a reasonable deal with the wheels and the photos. The only basic thing that seems to be missing is brake blocks but I will pcik up a pack of the Slaters plastic ones at Telford.

Since getting back from my hols I have had it out of the box and done a bit of reading up in the RCTS green book albeit there isn't much on them.

I have a few dilemmas in terms of I do, do I:

1. Make it spilt axle? If so how would I accommodate point 2?

2. Make radial trucks - I have the MRJ article where Laurie Griffin made some.

3. Fit working valve gear - my reading tells me that these had JOY single slide bar valve gear so I would have to buy some in and would it actually fit between the chassis? Out of the box the chassis is a fold up type and I suspect that I may need to separate the frames and make new spacers to do this.

4. Fit dummy Valve gear - Could the Gladiator dummy JOY valve gear be modified to represent the NER version (giving me quite a saving over buying working parts from Laurie Griffin?

5. Do I replace the radial truck wheel sets - I ask because I have never used Gibson wheels in this scale before and they are 3'8" diameter not the 3' 9" that were fitted to the F8's? My initial thinking is that I could probably get away with this discrepancy due to my plan to model it in the mid 1930's when there may have been some wear on the tyres by then.

So many questions and any thoughts/experiences on some of my questions will be gratefully received.
 

dibateg

Western Thunderer
Rob - can the valve gear actually be seen? There doesnt seem to be a lot of space between the smokebox/tanks and running plate. Unless its very visible I'd go with the dummy gear. Then that would facilitate split axle...

So thats a starter!

Regards
Tony
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the input Tony.:thumbs:
I had toyed with the idea of building the body first to answer that very question but thought that I would pose my thoughts/questions to see how others have done things before making any definite decisions.
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
If it's Joy's valve gear, remember that there is a very obvious (and bizarre) up and down motion that would be visible under the boiler. You could get over the split axle issue by using wipers on the crank axle only. Remember too that there are only the 2 cranks and no eccentrics in Joys valve gear, so there is a little more room to play with.

If you recall, I fitted some to my Aspinall A if you wish to remind yourself what it looks like - first couple of pages of my thread (gosh, really so long ago?). There's a video too.

Richard
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

Great to see you back posting, it must be a Yorkshire thing because I haven't done anything to speak of for a couple of months either, I just can't get back into it. I'm looking forward to seeing the F8 come together as its a lovely looking little tank. I have to agree with Richard about the valve gear. The valve rods on this gear are generally always visible as they sit higher as the valve chests are above the cylinders so if it were dummy gear i think you would really notice. Hopefully soon I'll be on with some myself, I'll keep you posted how it goes. If you were to build S7 you wouldn't struggle fitting the motion in :)) :thumbs:

ATB Mick
 

dibateg

Western Thunderer
I think we all go through phases where we loose our modelling mojo, it's best to just accept it, do something else, then return with new enthusiasm when inspired. So here hoping you get it back soon Mick - I'd like to see some more of your wagons!

Rob - do you have drawings for the F8? That might give an idea of what is visible..

Cheers

Tony
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
If it's Joy's valve gear, remember that there is a very obvious (and bizarre) up and down motion that would be visible under the boiler. You could get over the split axle issue by using wipers on the crank axle only. Remember too that there are only the 2 cranks and no eccentrics in Joys valve gear, so there is a little more room to play with.

If you recall, I fitted some to my Aspinall A if you wish to remind yourself what it looks like - first couple of pages of my thread (gosh, really so long ago?). There's a video too.

Richard

That was my initial thought regarding the pick ups Richard. Thanks for the detail on the Joy gear, when I read that it was Joy gear I immediately thought of your build.


Rob - do you have drawings for the F8? That might give an idea of what is visible..

Hi Tony, the only drawing that I have at the moment is one on page 91 of North Eastern record Vol 3 and it doesn't show any of the valve gear.

Photo's on the web are a bit thin on the ground too....
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Rob,
2-4-2's do pose some questions when it comes to powering and fitting working motion, firstly current collection can come off the leading and trailing axles with split axles but it gets a bit tight on the drive axle for insulating and fitting the taper pin but seeing as you have Slater's drivers I take it you will be cutting and gluing the Slaters axles?
If you want split axles on the crank axle drivers then short the Slater's wheels by linking the tyre with the crank pin only then the current will run through the rods to the rear set of drivers which would need shorting from wheel tyre to boss, via the crank pin, for the current collection.

If the F8's had radial trucks ? then it's a scratch job. Scale7JB built some nice ones and posted them here on WT somewhere.

Col.
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

Great to see you back posting, it must be a Yorkshire thing because I haven't done anything to speak of for a couple of months either, I just can't get back into it. I'm looking forward to seeing the F8 come together as its a lovely looking little tank. I have to agree with Richard about the valve gear. The valve rods on this gear are generally always visible as they sit higher as the valve chests are above the cylinders so if it were dummy gear i think you would really notice. Hopefully soon I'll be on with some myself, I'll keep you posted how it goes. If you were to build S7 you wouldn't struggle fitting the motion in :)) :thumbs:

ATB Mick


Thanks Mick.:thumbs: Between, you and Richard, you are definitely making me lean further towards having a go at the inside valve gear. I think that Graham has said enough on the S7 subject for me:p
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

Just catching up with this and think that Col's sussed it. The trick is to use the coupling rods to pass the current if you don't feel like making an electrically split crank axle. However, to be slightly controversial, I'd imagine that doing the trucks split to be trickier so perhaps have each of the trucks picking up, one from each rail?

I do have the necessary available to do a split crank axle on the workbench. It requires a bit of persistence but it's certainly possible. Drop me a pm if if it's a route you're interested in as I haven't done any pictures or a write-up of it yet...

If you can get a GA it seems likely to help you out enormously and you may yet get away with an abbreviated form of valve gear depending upon what's actually going to be visible.

From my perspective, I suspect I'd be going for a sprung chassis using Finney hornguides and Slater's insulated square bearings, refined Slater's wheels, split axles for both driving wheels (10BA crank pins, wired, as belt-and braces) and then probably handing the trucks off to each rail. Inside valve gear would be working too, but that's just me. And there's usually loads of room for it in FS - I had a thread round here somewhere which I think recorded the key dimensions... :)

Steph
 

demu1037

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

An Illustrated history of NER locos (Hoole/OPC) has a GA style drawing of a Class B (N8) which *might* help - although like most drawings in the book only shows the compound version - but could be enough for deciding what bits to fit!

Andy
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Rob,

About this time last year I went to the local Kite Festival to procure, on behalf of some WTers, a few yards of 2mm OD glass fibre rod... for use in the manufacture of split axles. Whilst the request originated with the late Cynric some of the material went to Richard Lambert and one other (as well as Cynric). How to use the rod for split axles was covered in a WT-topic by either Cynric, sorry I cannot remember by whom or where.

My recollection is that the mysterious "one other" might well have been you.

Whilst I might worship at the wider alter of S7 I think that Steph's recipe is on the button as regards the coupled wheelsets and the motion.

regards, Graham
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Rob,

About this time last year I went to the local Kite Festival to procure, on behalf of some WTers, a few yards of 2mm OD glass fibre rod... for use in the manufacture of split axles. Whilst the request originated with the late Cynric some of the material went to Richard Lambert and one other (as well as Cynric). How to use the rod for split axles was covered in a WT-topic by either Cynric, sorry I cannot remember by whom or where.

My recollection is that the mysterious "one other" might well have been you.

Whilst I might worship at the wider alter of S7 I think that Steph's recipe is on the button as regards the coupled wheelsets and the motion.

regards, Graham


Hi Graham, you are right it was me and I am part way there with 3 axles - in that I have drilled them out... but I haven't got further than that:rolleyes:
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,

Just catching up with this and think that Col's sussed it. The trick is to use the coupling rods to pass the current if you don't feel like making an electrically split crank axle. However, to be slightly controversial, I'd imagine that doing the trucks split to be trickier so perhaps have each of the trucks picking up, one from each rail?

I do have the necessary available to do a split crank axle on the workbench. It requires a bit of persistence but it's certainly possible. Drop me a pm if if it's a route you're interested in as I haven't done any pictures or a write-up of it yet...

If you can get a GA it seems likely to help you out enormously and you may yet get away with an abbreviated form of valve gear depending upon what's actually going to be visible.

From my perspective, I suspect I'd be going for a sprung chassis using Finney hornguides and Slater's insulated square bearings, refined Slater's wheels, split axles for both driving wheels (10BA crank pins, wired, as belt-and braces) and then probably handing the trucks off to each rail. Inside valve gear would be working too, but that's just me. And there's usually loads of room for it in FS - I had a thread round here somewhere which I think recorded the key dimensions... :)

Steph


Hi Steph, I like the idea of using the truck to pick up on each side. I will drop you a line on the split crank axle as I have other Slaters wheels for kits that I would like to use split axles/inside motion on but I may chicken out and use Col's method for this particular build.

Hi Rob,

An Illustrated history of NER locos (Hoole/OPC) has a GA style drawing of a Class B (N8) which *might* help - although like most drawings in the book only shows the compound version - but could be enough for deciding what bits to fit!

Andy

Thanks Andy, I will search out a copy and see what it offers

Thanks again for the input all - lots of ideas for me to get my head around. I think that Laurie G will be getting custom at Telford.
 

Rob Pulham

Western Thunderer
My Mojo is returning so I have made a small start on the F8 in so much as Having had a looked at Premier's site and not finding any suitable replacement coupling rods (and hearing about long waits for bespoke stuff). Working on the theory that I have nothing to lose but a bit of time, I soldered together the Slaters steel coupling rods and cleaned them up - they look a lot better to the naked eye thank they do in the photo....

Leaving them looking like this

LNERF8003_zpse4b7e6d5.jpg

I still need to open out the holes for the crank pin bushes.

Having had quite a few bits of advice/suggestions I have ultimately decided on:

· Radial trucks front and rear but shorted out one side only and picking up one from each side and I will see how I get on with the Gibson wheels – Slaters don’t do the correct size either so worn it will be. If I have any problems with the Gibsons I will replace them with Slaters.
· Working inside motion but the crank axle wheels will only be shorted to the crank pin and will use the coupling rods to pass the current.
· Split axle for the remaining drive axle.


Thanks to pointers from Steph and John Hobden of the GOG I have managed to locate a GA in the MRM lists which I now have on order and I have ordered the motion from Laurie Griffin for collection at Telford - I have that many bits and pieces on order for various projects that I have had to write a list so I remember to go around and collect/pay for them all:rolleyes:
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Bravo! More power to your elbow Sir!

The trick now is to ensure you stick to the specification you've set. It seems to me to be a good route to take.

Steph
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Rob,
Issues with Gibson wheels can be tyres coming loose usually solved by thin type super glue smeared around the joint on the backs between the tyre and centre so that the glue will seep into the joint by capillary action.
Another is don't over tighten the axle screws as this can distort the centre and cause the wheel to not run true, this is due to the fact that they do not have a metal boss.

Col.
 
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