Siphon F - Metalmodels kit build.

adrian

Flying Squad
Wth the glass truck notionally finished (painted and rolling!) I decided to turn my attention to one of my "shelf queens". A quick link for those unfamiliar with Western Thunder tradition of shelf queens.

A Metalmodels etched brass kit for a Siphon F.
siphon_1.JPG

It seemed like a good idea at the time but it doesn't really fit into my region of modelling. However I'd just acquired a Resistance Soldering Unit and decided that I'd need an etched brass kit to practice on. Scouring ebay at the time when this popped up, so I put in what I considered to be a lowish bid (about £35-£40 IIRC) as it wasn't something I specifically wanted - I was just after any kit to have a go with. As "luck" would have it I wasn't outbid so it ended up on my workbench!

It's quite an old kit - the instructions are dated 1975 but the etches are clean and crisp. The sides are built up from three layers of etches on the side of the main shell. They use a slot and tab system to locate them as each set of louvres are etched slightly lower than the previous layer. As you build the sides up this gives a very effective 45 degree louvre to the sides.

siphon_2.JPG

Unfortunately the whitemetal castings aren't up to the same standard as the etchings or newer kits. The buffers were replaced with brass ones from CPL, I then started building up the bogies, which is the stage that I got to in the first photo and the point at which it got plonked on the shelf to be done later! The castings for the bogie were fairly basic and I lost interest.

Over the summer I saw a posting about 9' American bogies from JLTRT - so I had a look and decided to get a set. Which is why this has now moved from the shelf to the workbench. So the basic framework has been built up and now got to the stage shown below.

siphon_3.JPG

I'm still undecided about the final finish - it's a little too early for my period but it's an interesting vehicle.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
p.s. forgot to say that this kit is where I decided that an RSU wasn't for me. I know other people rave about them and I read all the guides but I just couldn't get on with it. So I sold the RSU and kept the kit!
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
As we can give just a single "like" to each post I have "like"d your "PS" as well".

I hope that you can write some more about this model, especially how you assembled the multiple layers for the wood bracing without use of an RSU... maybe even why you decided that a RSU was not for you.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Or maybe Volute bogies? Peter has put those under his diagram O11, got them from Blacksmith Models when run by Dave Smith.

I wondered about that, but I'm building one from a pic; 1948 on the Sprat and Winkle headed by a Maunsell U with a mixed set of Collet/Hawksworth carriages in tow. Lovely stuff.

Steph
 

adrian

Flying Squad
I hope that you can write some more about this model, especially how you assembled the multiple layers for the wood bracing without use of an RSU... maybe even why you decided that a RSU was not for you.

Ask the questions and I'll do my best to answer them. As for my comments on the RSU that's probably best left for a separate thread on the subject. I've alluded to my problems with the RSU in the past and I think I should marshal my thoughts in a coherent, considered posting rather than just replying ad hoc. Let me jot down a few notes and I'll post something in a new thread.


And I'll be interested to see what you make of the NQLTRT bogies; I need a set for my Siphon G...

Well it was a rather inauspicious start to the build as I broke it before I really got started!!

The kit as supplied comes with a couple of sheets of etchings, a bag of whitemetal castings and a bag of brass castings. The castings appear nicely done, free from flash etc but I haven't got to the stage of using any of them yet.

The start didn't go to well as I struggled to fold up the first etching. As supplied in the kit the two side frames and two central cross members are all one etching. Now the instructions say to fold up the side frames first and then "fold the two crossmember vertical flanges down 90 degrees." The main etches are using 19 thou brass so the instructions recommend that you use an "Olfa" cutter and square file along the half etched grooves to make a deep V to get a clean fold. Well I did this and once the side frames are folded up it is quite awkward to fold up the cross member flanges as this is a much longer fold and the side frames stops you getting a secure clamp on the cross member. Anyway the result was I twisted the the cross member such that it snapped away from the side frame. The fold wasn't brilliant either so I ended up separating the sideframes from the cross members so I could get all the folds completed to my satisfaction.

If I had to do another set then I would definitely fold the cross member flanges first and then fold down the side frames. I can't guarantee that will work but I think it stands a better chance of sucess.

So I cut out the end beams and A frames braces (although there seems to be some duplication as there are some whitemetal A frame castings in the kit as well.:confused:). Again with 19 thou brass the A frame needed a little stroking with a rawhide mallet to get a smooth 90 deg fold.



bogie_1.JPG

I then used glass plate surface to hold everything flat and a couple of lengths of 1/4" square brass bar to hold the horn guides square whilst everything was soldered up. That went together quite nicely, everything so far seems to be quite nicely square and flat.

Curiously the etches have a little "DJP" logo on them so I wonder if they were sub-contracted out?

djp.JPG

Also given the wording in the instructions I wonder whether the etches were originally designed for slighter thinner material? It also took me a couple of days before I realised that there were some "pracice rivets"[sic] included on the etchings.
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Curiously the etches have a little "DJP" logo on them so I wonder if they were sub-contracted out?

Not Guilty! - I wonder who the other DJP is!!!?

I like this thread - a real blast from the past - I built FIVE of these for different customers in 1976/7 and three of their GWR 40' PBVs. These and the Colin Waite products were the ultimate kits at the time - but I fully agree about the bogies, which are now well past their sell by date!

Regards,

DJP
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Ticking along when I have the time.

Next on the instructions was the brake hangers, these fold up as a little U shaped unit to solder to the back of the frames, makes it simple to get the positioning right.
bogie_2.JPG

Well it would do if I were build to finescale standards, however in Scale7 this would put the brake shoes over the flanges of the wheels.

bogie_3.JPG
So the hangers were all separated out, I left the little side tab on and filed it down to move the hangers out enough for Scale7 before soldering up. Then followed by another stretcher beam, angled slightly, for the centre brake operating lever. More castings for "axle arresters" leaves a lot of cleaning up to do. This is the current state of the bogies.

bogie_4.JPG
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Next on the instructions was the brake hangers, these fold up as a little U shaped unit to solder to the back of the frames, makes it simple to get the positioning right.

Well it would do if I were build to finescale standards, however in Scale7 this would put the brake shoes over the flanges of the wheels.
Another fine mess etc., etc.. What a pity about the placement of the brake hanger pivots for the idea is a neat piece of work and in the best WT tradition - or ought I to say NQT "best tradition"?

Still, file the idea away somewhere for when the need arises.

regards, Graham
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Another fine mess etc., etc.. What a pity about the placement of the brake hanger pivots for the idea is a neat piece of work and in the best WT tradition - or ought I to say NQT "best tradition"?
Fortunately I'd sussed out the problem before I'd soldered anything in so it was fairly easy to make the adjustments. Just another one of things to consider when building to S7.
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Hi Adrian,

Just catching up through the threads after a weeks holiday in centre parks. I do love this build and I'm looking forward to seeing the new boggies fitted. Must also keep an eye out for any old kits as I real fancy building one of these. Does anyone know what happened to the range and if they still exist anywhere else?

Cheers Mick
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Does anyone know what happened to the range and if they still exist anywhere else?
Hi,

No idea what happened with the kits, although they still appear on ebay from time to time.

Anyway last update for the year, next job was cutting and folding numerous safety straps.
siphon 1.png

There was little to go on in terms of locating the straps, so I started on the outer ones at the side of the A frame. I then used a steel rule between them to locate the middle straps which are the angled ones.
siphon 2.png

This was then followed by folding up and attaching the outer steps. The steps fold up to this without any soldering so a small dab is required to hold them in position.

siphon 3.png

A start has been made on the brakes, I'm just working through them one set at a time. As supplied the triangular brake frames have etched pivot (the set on the lefthand side). I thought this was going to be a nightmare to file circular to fit the brake blocks. Also with moving the brakes out for Scale7 then they were a bit on the short side as well. The set on the right shows my modified version, the etched bits for the brake blocks have been replaced with a bit of 0.7mm brass wire. I filed a small half flat on the end of the wire to sit on the etching a bit better. The wires are a bit long here but will be shortened when fitting the brake blocks. Note also the brake blocks are flush on one side so you need to take care to fit them the correct way round. The bogie shows one set of brakes fitted.
siphon 4.png

One final note for building the bogies, the brake hangers need to be filed back. As supplied there is a distinct shoulder of the hanger which causes problems in adjusting the position of the brake block. The photo below shows the hanger as supplied on the left hand side and the modified hanger on the right.

siphon 5.png
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Does anyone know what happened to the range and if they still exist anywhere else?

Cheers Mick

Mick -

I believe they might be with Adrian at ABS. I might be wrong on this but I seem to recal Adrian telling me he had acquired the Metamodels range [they did some road vehicles as well and I'm pretty certain he has those]. Apologies if I am wrong - but if you are reading this thread Adrian perhaps you could clarify.

Regards,

DJP
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Having a few projects on the go I find I end up flitting from one to the other as I feel like it. With the other projects requiring a little thinking about and given the inclement weather I spent today working on the bogies.

The brakes were all finished off and then the attention turned to the longitudinal bolsters, they are floating and sprung units so plenty of castings to clean up, although to be fair the castings were nice and clean with very little flash to clean up. So these were all the bits.
bogies_1.png

Built up and fitted.

bogies_3.png

bogies_2.png

I've left the springs out for the minute. The next part of the instructions talks about fitting the axle boxes and keeper plates across the bottom of the horn guides, but this means fitting the wheels as well. However I really hate painting stuff with the wheels fitted, there is all the hassle of masking them up and they often get in the way of getting paint on the under frame. So my preference is to get the paint on before fitting the wheels wherever possible.

So instead of fitting the axle boxes I looked at fitting the lateral central bolster and springs. In the kit these are built-up from half a dozen white metal castings. So this raised the next "problem", the whitemetal casting is too wide! So it was with some amusement when I read in one of the other threads JLTRT disparaging remarks about RTR and they "invariably have errors and some clumsy detailing." Anyway this is the excellent attention to detail from JLTRT.

bogies_4.png

The whitemetal bolster is supposed to sit inside the side frames so they will need trimming down a little!
 

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
Are the coil springs supplied castings or real springs? I don't recall seeing any working sprung equalising beam suspension before apart from Pugsley's marvellous Class 37.

That too-wide bolster looks to be a PITA - if the leaf spring castings aren't going to protrude too much it looks like you'll have to remove most if not all of the end section which joins the 2 longitudinal beams :eek:
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Are the coil springs supplied castings or real springs? I don't recall seeing any working sprung equalising beam suspension before apart from Pugsley's marvellous Class 37.
Coil springs are supplied so the beam suspension should work as long as I don't bung it up with paint. Which it a useful prompt - just thinking about it now then the pegs are probably best treated with chemical blackening rather than painting.
 

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
Excellent, it will be interesting to see how effective the sprung beam is. I'm pondering the same painting issue with a couple of wagons with working leaf springs, I'm thinking I'll try blackening everything then splodge maskol over the moving bits before spraying.
 
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