Stanier 8F in S7

Discussion in 'S7 Group' started by DavidinAus, 8 February 2014.

  1. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    Dave would I'm sure re-run the 8f kit if there was a large enough collection of people wanting one still. It's just not economicall for him to produce them in small batches anymore.
    I brought most of the remaining 8f kits to go with the one unbuilt kit I already had so I will be making good use of your additional information that you have added here David as I never included it on my original 8f kits that I built so it won't be going to waste.
    I'm sure there are many others watching your excellent work come to a close to David so thank you for sharing this with us all its very much appreciated.
     
  2. Ian_C

    Ian_C Western Thunderer

    Not a rumour sadly - from the man himself at MOK. and a reminder to us all - buy what you fancy when it's available. Helps encourage and support our cottage industry suppliers. Where would we be without them?

    Your effort isn't wasted though. There'll be enough like me who've yet to build their kit who will learn from your blog. MOK could put your updated instructions on the MOK site as a download for the rest of us?

    By the way, it's looking good. Gives me something to aim for. Encourage me to raise my standards a bit. Thanks for the blog.
     
  3. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    I for one would be very interested to see the updated instructions as I have one of these kits and the S7 additional etch. If you want to publish them I'm sure one way another we'd be able to sort something out.
     
  4. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    Looks like Dave Sharp has been persuaded to produce another small batch according to the latest gazette. Make sure you get one on your Christmas list before they all go again. It does also say that he will do an additional order if there are sufficient numbers wanting one. All is not lost yet....
     
  5. DavidinAus

    DavidinAus Western Thunderer

    Thank you, markjj, Ian_C and adrian.
    I will carry on my 'blog and hope it inspires others to order an 8F from MOK - I have enjoyed making the kit, and the help I have received from WT has been tremendous.
    Onward ....

    Fall plate fitting 01.jpg The “fall plate" is (I think!) the footplate between the locomotive and the tender. This clearly has to move up and down, and even on a model some movement will be necessary.

    In the MOK kit the fall plate is an etched rectangular plate with the grip etched onto one side. There are cutouts for the hinges, which were assembled onto the cab sub-assembly earlier.

    There were no instructions as to how to fit this part. There is a second matching rectangle with no surface grip. Both have a half-etched edge, but it is far from clear how this could be used. I didn’t use the second plain etch. I curved the etched plate (as seen above) and decided to hinge the plate by attaching a tube to the underside and using 0.5mm wire through the hinge-brackets. I couldn’t find any small tubing in my scrap-box, but a U-shaped piece of brass channel made a better substitute.

    Fall plate fitting 03.jpg So I soldered a 35mm length of the channel to the edge of the fall plate, and then filed the rear edges of the plate to resemble the fall plate seen on p76 of the “Locomotive Profiles” book of the Stanier 8F (IMO an essential acquisition if you are going to make an accurate model).

    Fall plate fitting 02.jpg
    The picture in Locomotive Profiles shows two fall plates, not one, so accurately to represent this appearance, once I had soldered the brass channel in place, I used a piercing saw to separate the two halves (well, actually not quite separate them, but create that appearance).

    Fall plate fitting 04.jpg
    I then added the “hinges” by sticking paper squares onto the fall plate with cyano-acrylate glue.

    Fall plate fitting 05.jpg
    I then threaded the 0.5mm wire through one hinge on the rear of the cab assembly, then through the channel on the fall plate, then through the other hinge. Easier said than done!

    Fall plate fitting 06.jpg
    I then cut the wire just the right length to fit between the cab side etches.

    Fall plate fitting 07.jpg
    This gave the right appearance (I hope) with some flexibility to flap up and down.

    I think all I have left are the box-lubricators, the vacuum pipes, the cab doors and the window frames ....

    Mind you, it has taken over two years to get to this stage, and I still have a way to go, because I want to change to DCC and fit a speaker for sound and then fins a sound-file for an 8F. That will be my next challenge.

    David
     
    Last edited: 13 November 2016
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  6. rusty

    rusty Active Member

    David
    Youchoos list an LMS 8F (youchoos.co.uk) but I see the sound used is a mix of 8F and black 5 recordings - doubt if this is important. They mostly use Zimo decoders.
    Julian
     
  7. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    There's is an excellent recording done by the Chinnor & Princes Risbourgh railway for the 8f it's recorded from a proper loco and sounds very true to life. They are listed on ebay and available direct from the railway website I believe you can follow a link to it on YouTube via the eBay link below. I have no connection with this other than a once regular visitor to the railway itself.

    Look at this on eBay Loksound V4.0 DCC Sound Decoder of LMS/BR Class 8F Steam loco | eBay
     
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  8. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    By the way for those awaiting their 9f from MOK the same people do a lovely recording of the 9f from the real loco not a concoction. Just follow the seller's other items link.
     
  9. Ian_C

    Ian_C Western Thunderer

    I'm also planning to fit DCC and sound. Thanks for the link markjj. A question - where would you fit the speaker?
     
  10. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    I would try and fit it in the boiler as it's that end of the loco where most of the sound comes from on the real thing. A lot of people put them in the tender but personally I don't think it sounds right.
     
  11. DavidinAus

    DavidinAus Western Thunderer

    I think that I have finished the construction phase!

    Small Build complete 04.jpg
    It doesn't look as nice as Richard's picture of his MOK model, because I have opted to do some painting as I go along, so that I don't have to pull it all apart to paint behind the wheels, etc.

    Small Build complete 03.jpg
    I have put on nearly all of the fine detail now, although worryingly there are a few parts left over! I really don't know where they are from, apart from a couple of unions for the pipes in the cab which I left off inadvertently.

    Small Build complete 02.jpg
    I haven't put the window frames on yet, that will have to wait until after the painting (and glazing) has been done.

    With great trepidation I put the electrical connections with the tender in place and put the loco. on the track and turned the power on.



    It moves! Yes it shorts out between the front steps and the pony truck wheels at times, which makes it a little jerky, but I expect I can fix that.



    As the locomotive should not be "live" at all, there must be shorting in at least two places, but I am pleased that it seems to move well otherwise, and the sharpish curves (2m radius) on the test track don't cause the loco. or the tender to de-rail. Great relief. Admittedly I have had to increase the loco-tender distance about a millimetre to allow this, but that is acceptable, I think.

    David
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 13 November 2016
  12. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    A good idea as It would prevent the fall plate dropping vertically in between the loco and tender.
     
  13. DavidinAus

    DavidinAus Western Thunderer

    Primer.
    For undercoat I use some stuff found in Australia made by a car-paint firm call Hi-Tech, who make some really good primer called (surprise) "All-Surface Primer". I'm sure there would be equivalents made in the UK and elsewhere. Advantages are that it will stick to anything (I have to use a Stanley knife blade as a scraper to get it off the polished granite benchtop in the kitchen, but it is best that I don't spread that piece of information too widely ....) and that it is really thin and so easily applied by an airbrush.

    Small Primer 01.jpg
    A final advantage is perhaps that it looks a little like those pictures of exhibition prototypes produced by the manufacturers of real steam engines, although to be fair I have never seen a picture of a real 8F in factory primer.

    Small Primer 04.jpg

    Now my model doesn't look as good as the all-brass finish of some of the more expert modellers and painters, but it was more practical to paint behind the wheels before final assembly.

    Here are a couple of side views also.

    Small Primer 03.jpg

    Small Primer 02.jpg

    Well, I am pleased, anyway.

    David
     
  14. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    and so you should be - it does look nice. The primer looks a bit unusual in gloss but if it sticks like you say it does - who cares once the top coat is on.
     
  15. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    I think there is a photo of a grey loco in the Wild Swan loco profile series on the 8f David. I don't have mime to hand at the moment but I'm sure someone will correct me if not. You have done an amazing job of your 8f. I hope all the info here helps others with their builds if they have a kit. I know I will have my work cut out keeping up with yours now.
     
  16. Lancastrian

    Lancastrian Western Thunderer

    That could be my fault ;-) I've also been discussing some updates to the etches with Dave to allow for additional variations to be built or for more correct parts per the prototype. He's currently waiting to see how many cast fireboxes he'd need to order to make it viable to produce another batch. He's hoping about 25, but caster may request he orders 100 !

    Ian
     
  17. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    A few pointers would be appreciated. I've not really looked at the kit properly yet, it's still sat on the shelf, but I'm clearing out some other 7mm stuff from the erecting shop to make a start on it next year. I've not done enough research yet to know what the different variants are or which parts could be improved.

    I've already got the prototype selected as it was photographed at Tewkesbury shed.

    48388 near Bromsgrove

    so I'd be interested to know what can be tweaked.
     
  18. markjj

    markjj Western Thunderer

    To he honest I didn't think there were that many variations that the kit wouldn't cover unless you want to create some war department option. The kit already covered the 2 tender options apart from a few add ons I thought it pretty much lacked very little.
     
  19. DavidinAus

    DavidinAus Western Thunderer

    Stanier 8F in black.

    IMG_0351 2.JPG

    I realise that it will soon be three years since I started this thread!
    So I had better get on with it .....
    This is the stage at which realism becomes more possible. I have now painted the locomotive all over in matt black. I will then add numbers and lettering, before applying an all-over protective coat, then add weathering to make it more realistic. It looks a little odd at the moment, because the superstructure is an even matt black, whilst the wheels and motion have a more weathered appearance.
    Here are some pictures in still and video format:

    IMG_0344 2.JPG

    These are "Youtube" videos of the engine running on my test track.



    To the educated eye there are some mistakes visible, even apart from the lack of number and lettering, but they aren't too obvious, I hope.


    There are no cab window frames or glass, some small parts remain the wrong colour (coupling hooks, etc). No coal in the tender.


    There's also no exhaust steam injector below the left of the cab (it fell off as I was preparing the loco for the video - curses!).

    The lack of a number is a source of one amusing difficulty at present. I built the locomotive to be a version based on the features which I liked and thought looked good, namely: riveted tender, straight reversing rod, long exhaust ejector (which only rules out the GW-built ones, of course), squarer-ended balance weights on the driving wheels, riveted front buffer beam. Ideally I wanted one based in the NW of England (I was born there, and wanted my colliery model based there, although this is not really important). Out of more than 800 engines, this shouldn't be difficult, surely?
    This approach to picking an exact loco. to model is difficult. Looking through all the books I had, I couldn't find a single one with all those characteristics! Admittedly it is partly because if you cannot see the left side, you can't be sure of the reversing rod (or exhaust ejector), and if you cannot clearly see the wheels you cannot tell what type of balance weights there are.
    However even after filing the rivets off the front buffer beam (riveted ones don't seem common) I can only find ONE picture of an 8F showing a straight reversing rod, a riveted tender and square-ended balance weights. So 8185 is the only one I can model at present, based in Motherwell.
    Can anyone show me an alternative? Not that it really matters, I suppose.

    IMG_0347 2.JPG

    Anyway, I hope you like the pictures.

    David
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 31 December 2016
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  20. DavidinAus

    DavidinAus Western Thunderer

    Another thing ...

    As I have just about finished the construction phase, I e-mailed Dave Sharp with my rewritten instructions (I had promised him to do this, after he was so amazingly helpful in producing the etch to convert to Scale Seven). I also asked permission to send them to other people if they wanted them, emphasising that he retains copyright of course, as they are only modifications of his originals. In fact my version is definitely best read in conjunction with his: whilst I have copied and incorporated his diagrams where possible, it was only by iMac partial "screenshots" from my scanned copies, so they aren't always completely clear. Also, I couldn't put in any of the helpful photographs he has put in the instructions.
    Dave was kind enough to give me permission to send them out if they are of interest to anyone. I have included some of my modifications for electrical pickup as well as the S7 adjustments, plus my own techniques (mostly already seen by Western Thunderers, of course).
    I don't know how I would put <pdf>s on this site, and I'm not sure how worried about scammers/robots/etc on the WT site I need to be, but if anyone wants to be sent my modified instructions, my contact is something related to <moc.liamg@dehsluocdivad>

    Dave also confirmed all that has been said here already - he is happy to produce more of these kits, but it might depend on the amount of interest shown in them, compared to the minimum number of firebox casting he has to commit to.

    David
     
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