7mm The Derby Line - The Four Horseboxes of the Approximate Kits

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by dibateg, 29 October 2011.

  1. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Ooh you've got sharp eyes Brian! As received, the flanges were a little thick and on the rail the wheels were sitting on the roots of the flange, so the was no side play at all. DLOS took a skim off the root of the flange to alleviate that, but I now n
    he wasn't able to use a form tool for some reason. I shall report your observations, I was too much of a coward to try turning them myself - add to that lack of skill and experience in that department!

    Isambarduk likes this.
  2. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    I think David had trouble 'cos the wheels were not quite true on the axle, and had a slight wobble...

    Once they are painted and going round maybe people won't notice!

  3. Isambarduk

    Isambarduk Active Member

    Quite right, Tony. I took on this job only because Tony is a good friend. The flanges were well over thickness for 0F standard so I offered to thin them down from the front (the back to back, a derived dimension, was within the 0F standard for flanges that were also within the standard). I could not use a form tool because I do not yet have my larger lathe here with me but I would have had to have arranged some way of holding each wheel by the flange in soft jaws, or standing off from a faceplate if I were to machine the whole flange.

    As it was, the wheels were 'less than tight' in their insulating Tufnol bushes so I could use only the smallest of cuts with the slowest of feeds to be able to machine the wheels at all. Two of the wheels were so loose that I had to roughen the axles and apply Loctite to tighten them up. Added to that, all the wheels swashed on their axles, so machining into the root of the flange was not really on and we finished up with part of the wheel circumference with very little root radius, as Brian pointed out. I did the best that I could with what I had within a reasonable length of time

    As an a side, if these castings had been intended for my own model, I would have started again by turning steel tyres for insulation at the rim (avoids insulating the crank pins) and made new axles with a proper interference fit but that would take up a lot of time, which is OK for me but not so good for Tony's customer.

    aka DLOS
    Last edited: 20 December 2017
  4. isambardme

    isambardme Active Member

    Seeing all this, one does wonder - if only the owner had bought Slaters wheels in the first place...
    Yes, they are not perfect, but...
    Anyway, the loco body looks great, as we expect from Tony.

    Happy Christmas to Dibateg Tony & all his merry readers! :);):)
    7mmMick and Isambarduk like this.
  5. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Thanks David -

    and Steve - I would like to re-iterate that - Happy Xmas to all readers of the Derby Line thread!

    As always - it needs a bit of a clean up. It was all it bit 2 dimensional, and the brake shaft could do with being a bit more beefy. I've also added the 'fin' that supports the shaft in the middle. I didn't realise that the cylinder is off to one side until I saw the pics of this tender for Erlestoke Manor.

    7802's Donor Tender latest news! - Erlestoke Manor Fund

    As always there's a lot more under the tender than you might think. What I've done is more representational to get the right silhouette than high detail. The brakes are mounted on 14BA studs as they will need to be fitted after the wheels.
  6. Isambarduk

    Isambarduk Active Member

    I do so agree, Steve!

    I did write "... if these castings had been intended for my own model ..." but that was a big 'if' because, actually, for a build of my own model I would have used and adapted Slater's offerings.

    isambardme likes this.
  7. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Just the posts to add that are attached to the tender sides. The brakes will go after the chassis has been painted and the wheels put in. The 'fin' is just off centre...I used the resistance unit to put on some of the overlays. They were tinned first. I got the rivet strip on this side wrong, couldn't live with it and took it off and redid it - fortunately there was a spare.
  8. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    I just need to get the chassis painted now, so I can finish the assembly. I scratched up a few bits, like the weighshaft return spring - which you can't see from this angle, but is easily visible under the boiler. It's interesting to compare with the County that I did recently. It's taken a shade longer, and I would suspect that's related to it's age ( 1990 on the etches ). So it is of it's era, it fits together ok - not perfect, but ok, it is obviously blown up from 4mm scale. There are spacers marked 'OO' etc on the etches. I'm pleased with it, and Manors, ( not this one ) are very much a local engine on the Cambrian.

  9. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    The MMP GUV came back from being painted by Paul Moore, I've had it a few weeks. I'm just wrapping up a few tasks over the holiday period. So that was the next job to finish off, and the roof is on!
  10. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    I enjoy making up the backheads - in many cases, it is more representational than a truly accurate rendering. I do try to get it as close as possible. I generally but the tea can shelf and the fire doors on and then spray the basic assembly.

    The manifold in the kit lacked the mounting flange - so that was made from a spare exhaust injector pipe union. I also drilled out and fitted a 1mm mounting spigot. Preserved Manors have the central outlet blanked off, so I copied this, I couldn't think what the third pipe would be for.

    Some of the castings have quite chunky mounting flanges, so I counterbored the mounting points to reduce the amount that they project.

    The finished item - bar a little cleaning up of the messy solder joins. So what was that - about 4 hours work after the painting stage. There are a minor bits missing, and a few less pipes. It's a pity the Hobbyhorse range of castings is not available now.
  11. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Locos with two live steam injectors use two of the three outlets on the steam fountain. Locos with one live steam injector and one exhaust steam injector use all three outlets... two for the exhaust injector.
    Not necessarily so.

    Cookham Manor has (d) an exhaust steam injector as that engine was bought direct from BR. There is a chance that Lydham Manor has an exhaust injector as that loco was steamed in the mid 1970s and the DVR might just have been able to get one from the Woodham's non-ferrous store.

    Look at Caerphilly / Pendennis / Clun castles, Hall Agnes Burton or Lode Star and you shall be able to see the arrangement of the three pipes.
    Last edited: 2 January 2018
    daifly likes this.
  12. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Ah - thanks! As my build has two live steam injectors, I can sleep tonight! - I just had the two SVR loco's to refer to - 7802/7812.

  13. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

  14. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    This is the only photo that I can find on the net showing a GWR exhaust steam injector (ie., not a Davies & Metcalfe equivalent).

    GWS County Project

    In searching for this, I came across a GWR publication which shows the cab interior of an express loco... with side cab windows so not Churchward. What is interesting is that the engine has two live steam injectors which suggests that the fitment of an exhaust steam injector might not always have had two live steam feeds.
    Last edited: 3 January 2018
  15. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I have a couple of photos of Hall cabs and 61XX tank loco cabs a Grange and a 57XX pannier. All were taken in the early/mid 60s. These are all limited in the area they cover - I had no wide angle lens - but may give a clue as to the pipework layout. If these might be of interest let me know.

  16. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Paul (@OzzyO),

    Sometime back - say five or six years - you provide me with copies of photos of GWR 4-6-0s on the reception roads outside 'A' shop... showing the cabs / rear buffer beam and without the tenders present. If you have access still - I ask because I do not (computer failure) - then can you post here to help people understand the lay of the land for for the exhaust injectors and the several injector pipes.

    Thank you, Graham
  17. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Thanks Graham
    I wasn't fully happy with the GUV roof - there was a thin bead of light visible along the join from the inside. I also discovered that I'd put the roof on the wrong way round from the original build. The top of the interior is a smidge lower than the outer sides, so it was possible to create a small rebate by running 3 strips of roof tape along the underside of the gutter. This would sit behind the top of the outer sides and with any luck gently compress on to the top of the inner side. It seems to work.. after 4 attempts to get the roof to sit right. We also had a discussion about the window bars, in the colour photos we have, they didn't seem to be cream coloured, and a browse through my colour books suggested that also some of the maroon vehicles had them in the body colour. Anyway, it looks better after repainting them.

    So continuing the MMP theme - I'm now on a class 'B' tank. Having built two of these before, it's a nice little build. With a lot of small pieces of course, but they all fit.
  18. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    I managed to get a set of 'A' shop etched toolboxes of the correct pattern. They look a lot better:-
    isambardme, markjj, mswjr and 7 others like this.
  19. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    They do - don't they. Quite a bit taller as well.
  20. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Tony,
    I like the hasps on the tool boxes. Did you knock them up yourself or were they on the etchings? Either way a nice piece of work.

    I see the Finney 7 boys are offering padlocks in their parts range, so you can add some locks to stop the tools getting nicked!