Trackwork

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Hi Guys,

Not much time for model-making at the mo, yet thinking/planning is still allowed

I was just wondering if anyone had laid any track in the garden in the winter months before? - we laid all the H&BLR stuff in the summer.

When laying curves in the garden - on our raised baseboards - I was considering, instead of butt-jointing track together (with 'fishplates') - at the rail joints - if it is better to stagger the joints in the rails? I dont like the lack of prototypical authenticity for this system of doing such, yet some advocate it for strength and longevity. BTW I have never used this technique myself - yet!

Whilst I/we love the look of hand-built track, the thought of building our own doesnt really float any boats and besides there is still much to do, so we have decided that for the indoor scenic section that we will super-detail/modify Peco track and use mainly Peco on the outdoor section too.....

Any comments or ideas gratefully received

All the best,

CME :wave:

 

[marsa69]

I'd recommend the ready made flexi-track from C+L. It looks better and has a higher nickel content so will last better in the garden (alledgedly)

 

[Phill Dyson]

I'd recommend the ready made flexi-track from C+L. It looks better and has a higher nickel content so will last better in the garden (alledgedly)

How does it compare on price ? ( you need a lot for a garden railway ) & Peco has a proven track  ;D record of use outdoors ( 30 years + outside & still fine )

 

[marsa69]

Flexitrack is available in 3 bolt chair form, with either nickel silver or steel bullhead rail, of code 125 section. This is equivalent to BS95R in the prototype. C&L Flexitrack will give the same rail height above baseboard as PECO, but gives a more accurate sleeper spacing and the sleepers themselves are solid. It is packed in boxes of 8 and 24 metres and whilst we will sell any quantity, it makes for safer transit if you order in multiples of 8 metres.

The rail used in Nickel Silver track is our 'HiNi'. Unique to us, it has about double the normal nickel silver content. This makes it highly corrosion resistant and reduces the tendency to 'yellow'. The sleepers are solid and are moulded in a material that stands up to UV radiation better than normal plastics. If you want to construct an outdoor 7mm layout, then this is certainly the track you should use.

Thats taken direct from their website.

List price is ?42 for 8 metres. I'm not a sales rep and I don't have shares with them, but I am a satisfied customer  ;D Maybe buy a metre of C+L and a metre of PECO and compare the two for yourself,

regards,

Mark

 

[Graham Powell]

Hi CME, I have a total of about 160 yards of Peco track out in the garden. When I first built the railway Peco was all that was available. The first lot lasted about 20 years . There are still one or two pieces of that age out there. The newer stuff is supposed to be more resilient to UV which does seem to be the case. I tried staggered joints but when I lifted the railway earlier this year ( long story but I got rid of all the ballasting) I just put plain butt joints in. Only thing I would say is that you really ought to lay the track in such a way that it can easily be replaced if damaged. I have also found that the n/silver Peco fishplates corrode and fall to pieces. They do sell brass ones which might be better. Bond all the joints. I use strips of brass ex etched kits. I used to use wire but that breaks eventually. I 've found Peco to be a good product , after all its what they use on their demo layouts. I have no experience of C and L . Buy a yard and see what you think. One of my winter jobs is greasing all the fishplates with copper grease. Hope this helps , regards
Graham Powell

 

[iploffy]

As my layout is not completed yet I can only comment on the bit I have laid down the Peco product does not seem to deteriate or has not deteriated in the time I have had it in the back garden as has been said before do not rely on your rail loiners for electrical continuity use a bus bar and links dont use a track rubber as this is abrasive and marks the top of the rail use a small block of wood and a lint free rag and Alcohol this takes time but does no damage in the long run

Ian

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Hi guys :wave:

Thanks for all of your comments - much appreciated.

I should have declared that I already have several boxes of Peco flexitrack - some purchased as 'new old stock' second-hand and some from Tower - BTW I worked out the other day that about 90% of my 7mm stuff is second-hand, it makes such affordable

We have laid Peco's SM32 track - un-powered - on the H&BLR and it has been down for 8 or so years now and works well, as with the real raiway, we have lubd the 'fishplates' with WD40/AC90 etc. and we havent lost one yet. The points are another matter, as we have have switch-rail failures, stretcher/tie-bar failures, check-rail chairs have fallen off etc. etc. - All repairable and if the overly flimpsy stretcher bars keep playing up then we will remove the points and solder in copper-clad strip or similar. Peco have turned a blind ear to my comments - and those of others - on the matter of SM32 pointwork (which uses parts from 0 gauge points which aint appropriate for heavy live steamers etc...).

Judging by what has been said here I will probably Butt join the rails - for ease of removal - I have used this technique on other layouts - thanks for the tip off  I may use brass 'fishplates' as I am not sure if passing current through the track also aids their corrosion i.e. hence no issues on the H&BLR.

As I am using DCC, there will be a BUS with droppers and all the points will either be bonded or I will use a DCC device to switch polarity etc...

BTW we shall after some consideration, lay the track on to the mineralised roofing felt, we have some chick-grit to ballest, yet that would be a lot of work and not aid maintanance. Some of the roofing felt has bubbled a bit yet that can be remedied and when the track is pinned it will hold all in place as well.

Any advice on pins - steel or brass? :scratch: :scratch:

Thanks again guys.

CME :wave:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

As my layout is not completed yet I can only comment on the bit I have laid down the Peco product does not seem to deteriate or has not deteriated in the time I have had it in the back garden as has been said before do not rely on your rail loiners for electrical continuity use a bus bar and links dont use a track rubber as this is abrasive and marks the top of the rail use a small block of wood and a lint free rag and Alcohol this takes time but does no damage in the long run

Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the cleaning tip

I have had to check and file some of the 'V's  on the Peco points we have as some were not level (newest versions bought new and second-hand) so they may get ingrained dirt, yet I have gently filed, checked, filed and then sanded with 1200 grit W&D paper - it was either that or derailments etc

Cheers,

CME :wave:

 

[Graham Powell]

On my railway, the track base is concrete with wooden blocks set into it at about 1 ft intervals the track being pinned to the blocks. I've used both , steel and brass. Still rusts and I found more difficult to removed from the wood. Brass pins were easier to take out should you need to move anything. I used some that were over  1mm in diamter and about 1/2 inch long. Not sure where they came from. Because I had so much trouble with ballast I lifted the whole railway and removed it and this time fixed in back down using silicone bath sealant. A tip I had from David Fouracre of the Toolbox. This has been brilliant. I used exterior quality silicone bath sealant from a local hardware shop. Fairly pricey - might have been cheaper in Wickes'. I just ran a length of sealand down the back of the Peco track, set it by gauge to the other lines and pushed a rigid engine chassis up and down it so there was not rock. In about 30 minutes it was down solidly. Not sure whether or not this would work on roofing felt. You would have to try it.
All the best
Graham Powell :wave:

 

[iploffy]

Brass pins go to screwfix direct very reasonable prices and large stocks held (usual disclaimer applies) Also when you pin the track pin in the sleepers outside of the rail as it avoids gauge narrowing (grandma sucking eggs springs to mind).

Ian

 

[Phill Dyson]

I nail my track down with 1/2 inch panel pins, I found that track pins just bent & refused to go in the Ply that I use. The steel panel pins do rust a bit, but they haven't failed yet........ but if they do, I will give brass pins a go (thanks for the tip Graham).
I wouldn't use anything other than Peco track though as I'm very happy with it's durability & reliability 
:scratch:  I'm still undecided about ballasting outdoors, but if I do I may use 'Calci Sand' as the pic David A posted on the Guild forum looks excellent  8) 8) 8)


Phill  :wave:

 

[Jordan]

When laying curves in the garden - ... - if it is better to stagger the joints in the rails? I dont like the lack of prototypical authenticity for this system of doing such....

Dare I point out that that is exactly how it's done over on the Dark Side...? :scratch:
Or will I just be annoying people...?

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/www.tgimages.com/MTW/tracks5.jpg

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

[quote author=iploffy link=topic=599.msg9583#msg9583 date=128758
Brass pins go to screwfix direct very reasonable prices and large stocks held (usual disclaimer applies) Also when you pin the track pin in the sleepers outside of the rail as it avoids gauge narrowing (grandma sucking eggs springs to mind).

Ian
[/quote]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the tip/supplier



I will be pinin the ends of the sleepers - thanks for the tip though

CME :wave:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

Dare I point out that that is exactly how it's done over on the Dark Side...? :scratch:
Or will I just be annoying people...?

http://1.2.3.11/bmi/www.tgimages.com/MTW/tracks5.jpg

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

On my railway, the track base is concrete with wooden blocks set into it at about 1 ft intervals the track being pinned to the blocks. I've used both , steel and brass. Still rusts and I found more difficult to removed from the wood. Brass pins were easier to take out should you need to move anything. I used some that were over  1mm in diamter and about 1/2 inch long. Not sure where they came from. Because I had so much trouble with ballast I lifted the whole railway and removed it and this time fixed in back down using silicone bath sealant. A tip I had from David Fouracre of the Toolbox. This has been brilliant. I used exterior quality silicone bath sealant from a local hardware shop. Fairly pricey - might have been cheaper in Wickes'. I just ran a length of sealand down the back of the Peco track, set it by gauge to the other lines and pushed a rigid engine chassis up and down it so there was not rock. In about 30 minutes it was down solidly. Not sure whether or not this would work on roofing felt. You would have to try it.
All the best
Graham Powell :wave:

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the advice I will also give it some thought - yet pins may be easier for wooden boards and roofing felt if I have to remove/realign etc. etc :scratch:

Regards,

CME :wave:

 

[CME & Bottlewasher]

I nail my track down with 1/2 inch panel pins, I found that track pins just bent & refused to go in the Ply that I use. The steel panel pins do rust a bit, but they haven't failed yet........ but if they do, I will give brass pins a go (thanks for the tip Graham).
I wouldn't use anything other than Peco track though as I'm very happy with it's durability & reliability 
:scratch:  I'm still undecided about ballasting outdoors, but if I do I may use 'Calci Sand' as the pic David A posted on the Guild forum looks excellent  8) 8) 8)


Phill  :wave:

Hi Phill :wave:

Thanks for the heads up - as you know we are using similar construction methods to yours etc. So I may go for 1/2" brass pins then :scratch:

We will be using Peco too.

Ballasting would have to wait as I am keen for us - when the garden is up and running/re-planted etc. - to get on with the scenics indoors, may never ballast outside for maintenance issues and the ease thereof (some trees etc. in garden whereby cleaning up may be hampered by ballast).

Thanks again.

All the best,

CME :wave:

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Dare I point out that that is exactly how it's done over on the Dark Side...? :scratch:
Or will I just be annoying people...?

Not at all: it was early practice in the UK, but we soon moved on to better things... ;-)

 

[Jordan]

Not at all: it was early practice in the UK, but we soon moved on to better things... ;-)

I made no judgement as to whether it was "better" or otherwise than UK practise; just pointing out that such a method is prototypical. No doubt they have their reasons for doing it this way... :scratch:
Must admit that unless you're totally scratchbuilding your track, it's be quite difficult to lay model track this way.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

I made no judgement as to whether it was "better" or otherwise than UK practise; just pointing out that such a method is prototypical.

Just teasing.

No doubt they have their reasons for doing it this way... :scratch:

If you have staggered rail joints, then you can have regular tie (sleeper) spacing. In the US this is generally much closer than in the UK. In theory you get less of a dip at the rail joints, as both wheels on an axle are not dipping together.
In the UK, sleeper spacing varies on panelled track, with closer spacing towards the rail joints.
If you have panelled track, then you can of course lift and replace individual panels, but this technology came later.
How much all of this relates to the UK using bullhead rail with keys to cushion some of the shocks I do not know, but it may have something to do with it.

Maybe one of the professional railwaymen on the board would like to comment?

 

[Graham Powell]

Hi CME, Must confess had nothing but trouble with ballast. I did  mine last year using budgie grit and PVA. During the hard winter it came away and it was possible to remove a yard of track with all the ballast still attached. The railway was more like a roller coaster than a smooth expanse of main line. It was hopeless.
Anyway, I lifted the whole lot, cleaned off the ballast and relaid it all with a slightly wider spacing between the tracks. I fixed it down with the aforementioned
bath sealant. (Still set like a rock by the way). Re did the bonds and now its back as it was when I first built in 1994. I can run four trains all afternoon  without any derailments at all. Of course its up to you but I would avoid ballast. No ballast also means that I can easily lift out sections if they get damaged and also can replace any duff rail joiners.  My railway is only 14 inchess off the ground and I do get the odd dingbat who likes to jump over it. I can see it getting damaged at some stage.
All the best Graham Powell. :wave: ;D